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Old 10-01-2008, 12:02 PM   #106
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I can honestly say I am so dis-interested with this campaign I'm starting to avoid reading or watching tv about it.

The debate is on Thursday, I'll be watching Palin-Biden. Sad, I know.

How in God's name could they schedule the debate on the same night as the VP debate? Why would they not reverse the English and French debates to curb the amount of people tuning them out?

Dion is done. He's horrible! I knew it when he was elected, but hoped it wouldnt be this bad. Preventing Harper a majority is the only hope. If this happens at least we will have the chance of getting a new Liberal leader and going to another election in a few years. Iggy is the only person in this election that has gotten my interest, his speeches are wonderful. Lets vote already and get this over with.
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Old 10-01-2008, 07:42 PM   #107
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Legalising gay marriage brings these weirdos out of the woodwork
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An independent Canadian federal candidate in northern Ontario may face hate crime charges for his "execute gays" remarks at a high school, police said.
Candidate David Popescu told some 200 students Tuesday afternoon at Sudbury Secondary School "God would hurt" those who had an abortion, Sun Media reported.

Soon afterward, a student asked Popescu's opinion of gay marriage, to which he responded homosexuals should be executed, the report said.

It wasn't reported who contacted the Greater Sudbury Police Service to complain of hateful speech, but Sun Media said Popescu repeated his statement in a telephone interview.

"A young man asked me what I think of homosexual marriages and I said I think homosexuals should be executed," he said. "My whole reason for running is the Bible and the Bible couldn't be more clear on that point."

Deputy Police Chief Frank Elsner told the news agency the complaints were being taken seriously.

"We are actively conducting a criminal investigation in this matter," he said.

Canada's federal election is scheduled for Oct. 14.
Canadian federal candidate: 'Kill gays' - UPI.com
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Old 10-01-2008, 07:50 PM   #108
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Wonderful.

I think voter turnout is going to be hitting close to record lows this time around. I actually know very few people who will bother to vote.

I myself may actually not vote this time - first time ever, because of registration issues and moving around this year. I am registered at my parents' house where I no longer live, in Toronto, and because of my recent move, my voter card is at their place. Given the amount of hassle I'd have to go through in the next 10 days, and given that it's impossible for me to be there the day of the election, it looks like I'll have to pass this time. Can't say I'm terribly upset.
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Old 10-01-2008, 08:04 PM   #109
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My initial enthusiasm over this campaign has waned considerably and I'll be more interested in the Palin-Biden debate tomorrow night than anything.
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Old 10-01-2008, 08:46 PM   #110
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Canadians, vote for Stephan Dion's Liberal Party!

This is the first time I am excited to vote for the Liberal Party. Stephane Dion is a man who cares about making Canada face up to its long-term priorities but with compassion and understanding.

I don't trust Michael Ignatieff because he was so ruthlessly willing to throw away the rights of minorities in the name of fighting the war on terror and supported the Iraq War. Paul Martin probably would have taken us to war as well, and Chretien was slightly scummy and is responsible for the sponsorship scandal that brought down the Martin governemnt.

Dion is a breath of fresh air and, if he loses this opportunity, I fear Liberal Party delegates will push for a new leader -- someone not as idealistic and more safe.

I urge people not to vote for the NDP, where the Liberals have a chance, because I don't think Jack Layton will be nearly as good a leader. He also helped the Tories bring down Martin's government for the sake of political gain and there was a CBC report he was in cahoots with our bastard Prime Minister Stephen Harper to exclude the Green Party from the debate.

Unless you're in May's district, potential Greens, let's turn those votes Liberal and have a PM of whom we can be proud!

And now for the scourge of liberty -- that machine politician, Stephen Harper of the Conservatives.

He's been running negative attack ads against Dion that speak to soft-racism on the language issue and the insecure desire in us all for someone strong-fisted. We don't need that and we should have confidence that Dion will make the right call for our environment and on our security needs, including the war on terror and Afghanistan, without violating civil liberties or human rights of "the other". Where Harper relies on Bush-like right-wing US Republican extremism and cliche stances without looking deeper, Dion is a humble, thoughtful, careful man, who will do us justice.

Here are some of Harper's failings:

1. In the Israel's 2006 massacre of Lebanese , he shamelessly supported Israel either in some pathetic attempt to buttress a pro-Israeli Jewish constituency as they have in America or in some thoughtless show of solidarity for right wing fascists the world 'round who decry violence by terrorist organizations but hypocritically support state violence.

Harper fails to recognize that not all terrorist groups are equal -- as McCain and that freakshow Palin fail to understand in their black and white nationalistic view of the world. I don't support Al Qaeda-type groups, but Hezbollah and Hamas arose out of the Israeli occupation, not because "they hate our freedoms" or hate the West or have some colonial vision of subjugating others to Islamic law; they want their land back. They aren't perfect and have surely committed terrible acts, but so have the Israelis. Where the international community welcomed Ariel Sharon, a war criminal, as leader of the Israeli people, Palestinians' democratic choice of Hamas was rejected because they would not refuse the threat of force. Was Sharon ever required to give up Israels arms or the helicopters provided by the US? Was Israel made to give up the land it took or rechannel the water it took or not build a wall up to 6 km into Palestinian territory? No. This is hypocrisy of the highest order. Barack Obama supports these disgusting policies, at least rhetorically, but Stephen Harper never had to. He chose to do so out of the cruelty and racism in his heart.

Secondly, this decision, led by Bush and a reluctant international community, has only made peoples of the Middle East less likely to believe there is a civilized channel to their discontent because recognized institutions haven't work in favor of justice. The moderate government in Lebanon was only weakened by the West's carte blanche to Israel's massacre that killed over 1,000 innocent Lebanese civilians (while Hezbollah responded by killing 100 Israelis, mostly soldiers). Israel holds thousands of people in its jails without evidence of wrongful acts. Hezbollah wanted a prisoner exchange. Instead of encouraging this peaceful act, Harper and others encouraged murder that only destabilized the region. The moderate Lebanese government that was supported by the West was left pleading to stop the bombings and murders among deaf Western government ears. Collateral damage is just as murderous as those killed by any terrorist act. As a result, Lebanese Muslims turned their support to Hezbollah because it was willing to fight back and provide reconstruction. So, on both moral and practical grounds, Stephen Harper has led Canada down the wrong path with his racist war-mongering simplistic view of the world that will only worsen the conflict with Islamic terrorism.

2. On the environment, Harper has backed away from Kyoto. Like Bush before him and Sarah Palin now, he used the pathetic excuse of needing to "study" the matter before opting for the solutions we need. Dion won't stall, but he won't mercilessly force things without consideration for the lives of Canadians. Harper is just more Bush-Palin politics of pretending the problem doesn't exist so corporations can make money. It's hard to do what's right on the environment and I will never accept recycled bathroom tissue, but Dion will bring us progress on this issue. He's an intelligent man who has found this has worked in Europe.

3. On crime, Harper is more willing to have a black or white view that criminalizes those of us who make mistakes -- terrible mistakes, to be sure -- that require a holistic view of how environment affects individual behavior. I am staunchly against the scapegoating of young offenders. Harper is a typical thug, like Bush, who's quick to point the finger, but slow to take responsibility. He's willing to give up a young person who murders so easily, but what did he encourage Israel to do in 2006, what is Canada often doing in Afghanistan. Harper is for legalized murder or murder that's acceptable to some Western powers, but it's based on the same impulse. He's far more murderous than most young offenders, he just channels his brutality in more acceptable ways. He's a hypocrite on crime.

Moreover, on a practical level, solving crime requires long-term work, especially with Canada's minorities and/or economically disadvantaged folks. The poor or poorly raised are more likely to commit violent crime. I don't Canada to become like America. I don't like guns in my country, but we have to resolve this intelligently and humanely because that's the only way to tackle the problem.

4. Safety of Canadians. Remember the head of that nuclear plant that wouldn't allow isotopes to be given out to hospitals around the world? There was good reason for her decision. The plant was unsafe and had to be shut down for inspection/repairs. Harper had her fired for putting the safety of Canadians over the international embarrassment of not having enough isotopes. In doing so, Harper ensures other officials in similar situations won't place the safety of Canadians ahead of short-term interests. Let's not forget about the Listeriosis scandal. Corporations can't be trusted to run amok because they will choose their short-term private interests most of the time; we need strong regulation to protect us.

5. Leadership. Harper tries to come off as confident, but it's really confidence based in knowing he can control others; he has consistently shown a tendency toward fascist tactics and has no group of strong advisors to counterbalance his rule. He's also very controlling in his dealings with the media; he refused the CBC's Peter Mansbridge an interview using the format to which every other candidate has agreed. Is this the kind of leadership we want and need? Dion will listen to Canadians and lead with integrity by making the right choices for all Canadians.

6. The Economy. With a recession coming, is this the time for Conservative-style free market experiments and ruthless ideological notions of "survival of the fittest"? Conservatives have wanted private style health care for a long time and they favor the interests of corporations over those of the poor and working class. The Liberal Party under Dion will ensure that suffering among Canadians is minimized, and won't just watch out for corporations.

On October 14th, vote of civilized, thoughtful, intelligent, progressive change we need. Vote Dion and the Liberal Party of Canada!
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Old 10-01-2008, 08:55 PM   #111
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We have a Canadian election thread already. Answer me this: what do you think is the percentage of people who actually read your novels on all of the message boards you post in?
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Old 10-01-2008, 09:22 PM   #112
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He's right. Although I belong to no political party and wish that more INDEPENDENTS actually ran for office. Dion seems like a good person. Probably too good for politics (what a sorry state politics is in). I live in an area where the Liberal candidate always seems to win. We cannot risk giving the Conservatives a majority - that is the only real danger of this election. A minority would be fine - no matter who runs it. In fact I believe everybody is better off with any kind of a minority government - no total power to any party. Having said that, here's one statement that should make everyone think twice about voting for Stephen Harper...IF STEPHEN HARPER HAD HIS WAY CANADA WOULD BE IN IRAQ AND WOULD HAVE BEEN SINCE 2003!!!!!!!!
That alone should make everybody vote against this guy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 10-01-2008, 10:14 PM   #113
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As for us being in Iraq had Harper been the leader in '03, a few party leaders brought up that point during the French debate tonight.

Did anyone watch it? I caught the last 45 mins - it was pretty civil. Harper remained pretty calm and unrattled despite being on the defensive most of the night.

Dion did quite well - if only his English was as good as his French.
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Old 10-01-2008, 10:39 PM   #114
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My initial enthusiasm over this campaign has waned considerably and I'll be more interested in the Palin-Biden debate tomorrow night than anything.
Really? I'll bet you $10 (Canadian) that you change your mind. Should be entertaining tomorrow, if tonight is anything to go by. Palin-Diden...uhhh. Can she really debate? I guess that will be an entertaining element, in itself.

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Originally Posted by ladywithspinninghead View Post

Did anyone watch it? I caught the last 45 mins - it was pretty civil. Harper remained pretty calm and unrattled despite being on the defensive most of the night.

Dion did quite well - if only his English was as good as his French.


For the first time in Canadian election debate history...tables instead of podiums!

I also thought Dion was pretty impressive tonight. Finally, he seemed well-versed and prepared in detailing exactly what the Liberal plan is...but, it was in French. Hopefully some of that articulation can filter over to tomorrow. He's a little goofy and English-challenged, but he's also endearing, sincere and passionate. Ultimately, I do think he's prime minister material...he's just not what we've become accustomed to...in the cardboard cutout vein.

I thought May's comments about Harper's "charming" kids were hilarious. I'm glad she was there...she should be an even bigger presence in English.
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Old 10-02-2008, 02:09 PM   #115
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Now I know I am a politics loser.

I watched the French debates. It was hard to really get the full breadth of what they were trying to say but was a wake up call for me.

If you take that debate as an example, and compare it to the US debates, its totally different.

The leaders look at eachother, they actually debate issues. They use far less talking points and attack, respectfully, eachothers view points. The best part of the debate was when they were asked to say something nice about the person sitting next to them. Some of them gave real honest answers, and they looked at eachother, engaged eachother. Such a difference from the American debates, and a breath of fresh air.

I thought Layton did a good job, very vocal and to the point. He's the best looking leader when he's debating, confident and on message. Tonight is going to be interesting, I might watch our debate then wait for CNN to replay the VP debate. The englsih language is going to be a great debate, Layton will really come out swinging, Harper should be a bit more on the offensive this debate as well. May really hit Harper hard, she really is bad for Conservatives in this deabte because she causes left leaning Canadians to rethink him and vote NDP or Lib to block him.

This has picqued my interest a bit. Finally.
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Old 10-02-2008, 03:13 PM   #116
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If you take that debate as an example, and compare it to the US debates, its totally different.
God help you if it weren't though, you know?

How common is it for native-English-speaking Canadians to be sufficiently fluent in French to follow a debate in it? And are your politicians all expected to be fluent in both languages?
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Old 10-02-2008, 03:48 PM   #117
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God help you if it weren't though, you know?

How common is it for native-English-speaking Canadians to be sufficiently fluent in French to follow a debate in it? And are your politicians all expected to be fluent in both languages?

Well the debates were on CBC last night dubed in English. Thats why I'm a loser, I watched a dubed debate!

Yes our Leaders of their respective parties pretty much need to speak english. If they did'nt they'd get wasted in Quebec. Elisabeth May can't speak French to well but she could get by. It's nearly a guarentee you need to speak French to be Prime Minister, not so much to be a Member of Paliment.
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Old 10-02-2008, 09:09 PM   #118
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Harper is pulling a Mulroney.
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Old 10-02-2008, 09:14 PM   #119
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Elizabeth May is impressing...
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Old 10-02-2008, 09:18 PM   #120
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The debate table resembles a tiny Air Canada Centre.

*crickets*
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