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Old 09-10-2008, 02:42 PM   #61
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I live in the riding of Halifax. Alexa McDonough's been our MP for 11 years, but isn't running again. That said, it's basically a lock for the NDP once again. The Conservatives' candidate dropped out a couple days ago when it got out that she uttered a death threat at a cop, and then failed to show up for her court date five years ago. Basically that's all the excitement the race in Halifax is probably ever going to generate.
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Old 09-10-2008, 03:05 PM   #62
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I read that today in the paper, but it didnt say why she dropped out. Probablly a good reason.

Harper made a big announcement today:

from cbc

Canada will withdraw the bulk of its military forces in Afghanistan as scheduled in 2011, Conservative Leader Stephen Harper pledged on Wednesday, saying the Afghan government "at some point has to be able to be primarily responsible" for the country's security.

Speaking to reporters at a breakfast briefing in Toronto, Harper said the Canadian public has no appetite to keep soldiers in the war-torn country any longer than the pullout date agreed on by Parliament.

"You have to put an end date on these things," Harper said.

He added that while Canada's military leaders have not acknowledged it publicly, a decade of war is enough.

"By 2011, we will have been in Kandahar, which is probably the toughest province in the country, for six years," Harper said.

"Not only have we done our bit at that point, I think our goal has to be after six years to see the government of Afghanistan able to carry the lion's share of responsibility for its own security.

"At that point, the mission, as we've known it, we intend to end."

Troops would stay 'in some technical capacities'
The Tory government, supported by the Liberals, extended the military mission in Kandahar province to 2011 earlier this year, with a shift to emphasize the mission's priorities to reconstruction and development in the region.

Harper has made past statements in support of a shift in Canada's priorities in Afghanistan, but the prime minister's latest comments appear to show for the first time his acceptance of a troop pullout by the date.

"It's fair to say he was clearer and perhaps more forceful than before on what is going to happen in 2011," the CBC's Paul Hunter reported from the Harper campaign.

While there may be a few Canadian soldiers who stay on after 2011 as advisers, the bulk of the troops will be home by then, Harper said.

"I don't want to say we won't have a single troop there, because obviously we would aid in some technical capacities," he said.

The prime minister's assurances come as the death toll for Canadians in Afghanistan since troops deployed there in 2002 approaches 100. One Canadian diplomat has also died in the mission.

Taliban insurgents have stepped up their attacks in Afghanistan in the last month, in what they claim is an attempt to influence Canada's federal election.




With regards to this, I'm not a fan of deadlines in Afghanistan. I really believe in this mission, though I can understand Canadians frustrations with how we've been stuck in the worst part of the country and no other country (with the exception of the US) is willing to send troops to Kandhar.

The other reason I dont really like this is that Harper is just saying this to peel votes off the Liberals. When 2011 roles around and if things are still the same I can see Haper flip flopping on this. He has no intention of pulling out of Afghanistan. It seems like pandering to me, but I suppose all campaigns are a series of who can pander the best.
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Old 09-10-2008, 06:54 PM   #63
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I agree with you pretty much to the letter bonoman. Trying to grab liberal votes is exactly what he's doing, and whether Canadians like it or not, we're needed in Afghanistan. My sincerest hope is that we stay there, doing what we're doing, regardless of the government that gets voted in. I don't know why people can't understand that you can't build infrastructure if people keep blowing it up. It isn't as easy as just 'building schools' and stuff, although I've talked to people who seem to believe it.

I've had countless arguments with people who blame the conservatives for our presence there -- that we're 'following Bush' even though it was a Liberal government that put us there (because, shock, we were needed) -- and that Harper 'should have done a better job' running it (which, incidentally, isn't his job). I understand that people have friends and family who are dying, but the outrage on the national level, the desire to just walk away from it, that part really frustrates me. Our soldiers got into their career for exactly this end, why would we even maintain a military if we aren't going to use it, and furthermore, if the bleeding-hearts are concerned about the suffering of others why are they concerned only about Canadian others and not the others who would be suffering in Afghanistan without our presence? What about Bosnia-Herzegovina, Sudan, Darfur, Rwanda? Why not just walk away from all the world's problems, whenever they happen, and just let people suffer. Then we can be the kind, compassionate, peace-loving Canadians who foster suffering and war in the world by doing nothing when we do have some power to produce change.


Anyway.


Jack Layton's constant contradictions, lies, floundering, and pandery have long since stripped any NDP support from me. As an aside, he looks like that guy on TV that sells 'how to use Microsoft Office' cds -- that's not why I don't like him, but it is funny.

I don't really like Stephane Dion, nor Sue Barnes (who runs in my London-West riding), and I'm also frustrated with the Liberals who claim that the failure of Canada to meet Kyoto goals is the conservatives fault -- the Kyoto goals that the Liberals failed to meet in any of the years following its signing and ratification both. I'm frustrated with the Ontario Liberal ban on incandescent bulbs in favour of compact fluorescents in spite of the known dangers of mercury, since apparently carbon emission is the only metric for environmental well-being. I'm frustrated with liberal supporters who think the Liberals are the ones fixing the environment and ignoring the reality of it. They sure did a good job grabbing cash with that vehicle check thing, though, which really didn't fix the problem, but sure did help out local garages.

I heard Liz May speak in my favourite bar downtown one time during the last election, and I'm convinced the greens don't actually have any real policies or procedures to back up their lofty ideas. She speaks well only because she's well educated. They certainly can't run a government or form any strong opposition. Which is too bad, because they're basically a less insipid NDP, but they're still not worth voting for.

I'm also frustrated that I can't vote for Gilles Duceppe in Ontario Gilles

There's lots of things I dislike about the conservatives too, like Stephen Harper, but they're getting my vote largely because of Afghanistan and as an anti-Liberal vote. I figure it's going to be a conservative minority anyway, and Sue Barnes will still win London-West, but at least I'll get to piss off my friends by telling them I voted conservative.


Anyway tl;dr, yes, our elections are boring.
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Old 09-10-2008, 10:07 PM   #64
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So the Greens are going to be allowed at the debate after all
First the NDP caved, followed quickly by the Conservatives...

By the way, I'm not entirely convinced the Liberals would withdraw from Afghanistan in 2011 either, despite their pledge to do so. As you mention, unforgettableFoxfire, it was the Liberals who sent soldiers there in the first place so it would reflect badly on the party and the mission would be considered a failure if a full withdrawl occurred before order was restored to the country.

I live in Etobicoke so my MP is Michael Ignatieff; a colleague of mine told me today he knows Michael quite well so I told him to offer Iggy my services
I've only recently moved here (July) so no idea if this riding usually swings Liberal. I would imagine so but I'm sure fellow Torontonians could shed more light! (I read Toronto proper hasn't elected a Conservative in 20 years!! I'm so proud to live here!)
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Old 09-12-2008, 08:57 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by namkcuR View Post
I know basically nothing about Canadian politics. Just a very basic question...when you speak of 'conservative' and 'liberal' in the context of Canadian politics, do they mean the same as they do in American politics, or are they different?
UGHH, this made me kinda mad... seriously I'm not trying to be rude but OMG i have to learn about useless American politics and history in my social classes since grade 6 I'm taking a social 30 now (grade 12) and i still have to learn about it. Honestly Americans should have to learn about ours because half the kids don't even know what Canada is, which pisses me off so much. And don't say "oh that's just a stereotype, they know what it is" well funny thing ive been down to the u.s many times and with school and a little boy about 13 came up to me and said is Canada in Europe by 13 i knew half of your presidents and all your states.

I'm conservation and i love what Steven Harper has done for this country. I honestly don't think Stefan Dion could do better.
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Old 09-12-2008, 09:00 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by love_u2_adam View Post
I'm conservation and i love what Steven Harper has done for this country.
What things specifically?
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Old 09-12-2008, 09:17 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by love_u2_adam View Post
UGHH, this made me kinda mad... seriously I'm not trying to be rude but OMG i have to learn about useless American politics and history in my social classes since grade 6 I'm taking a social 30 now (grade 12) and i still have to learn about it. Honestly Americans should have to learn about ours because half the kids don't even know what Canada is, which pisses me off so much. And don't say "oh that's just a stereotype, they know what it is" well funny thing ive been down to the u.s many times and with school and a little boy about 13 came up to me and said is Canada in Europe by 13 i knew half of your presidents and all your states.

I'm conservation and i love what Steven Harper has done for this country. I honestly don't think Stefan Dion could do better.
Kayla, if I may interject here, what he meant is if the Conservative Party and the Liberal Party have the same meaning in Canada as conservatives and liberals do in the United States. Politics in general is very nuanced, and even if you know all about a country's political system, there's no way that you can get an accurate feel for it unless you live in that country, or as is the case here, have access to many different mediums to learn about it.

For example, Americans, unless they live in border states, don't have access to our TV stations like the CBC. Conversely, we have on basic cable the big four American networks—NBC, CBS, ABC, and Fox—so it's only natural that we may be more aware of what's going on in American politics than they are of Canadian politics.

And, to answer namkuR's query, the Conservative Party of Canada, in my opinion, isn't as far to the right as 'traditional' American conservatives. The Liberal Party is more of a centre-left party than anything else. The third biggest political party, the New Democratic Party, occupies the left-hand side of the political scale.
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Old 09-12-2008, 10:44 PM   #68
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Yea i know but still it makes me mad that i need to learn about it even though i watch there TV stations. Ugh i find that its just a lot of junk that i don't really need to learn...

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What things specifically?
Lowering the tax to 5%, provided low income parents to money to put there kids in day care, lots of schools (including mine) got tons of funding for new text books and computers, and made the first real motion to eliminate greenhouse emissions. Look at our economy compared to the u.s we're not losing our houses are we.
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Old 09-12-2008, 11:14 PM   #69
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Old 09-12-2008, 11:24 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by love_u2_adam View Post
Lowering the tax to 5%
How have you specifically benefited from saving 2 cents on the dollar? What have been the economic consequences of this decrease? Do you think that running down the surplus might be a bad thing?

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provided low income parents to money to put there kids in day care,
This was a Liberal initiative under Paul Martin, not the Conservatives.

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lots of schools (including mine) got tons of funding for new text books and computers,
Allocation of school board funding is a provincial matter.

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and made the first real motion to eliminate greenhouse emissions.
Really?

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Look at our economy compared to the u.s we're not losing our houses are we.
Stephen Harper is responsible for a completely different mortgage & banking situation in this country? How so?
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Old 09-12-2008, 11:25 PM   #71
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Yea. Another election. Whee.

Go.. uh..

Oh damn, they all suck.
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Old 09-13-2008, 09:45 AM   #72
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How have you specifically benefited from saving 2 cents on the dollar? What have been the economic consequences of this decrease? Do you think that running down the surplus might be a bad thing?
If I remember correctly, the GST is a Conservative creation, and Chrétien originally campaigned on eliminating it back in the early 1990s.

Frankly, as an American used to 6% state sales tax only, seeing that everything I have to buy has a 13% markup in Ontario (GST+PST) is a bit crazy. Plus, considering that bordering American states often have no sales tax (NH) or no sales tax on essentials, including clothes (PA, MA), from a free trade POV, I feel like Canada is often missing out in encouraging outside people to buy within its own borders. Of course, the GST isn't the whole story; the fact that the country, as a whole, is not price competitive compared to America is problematic.

No, Canada should not squander its surplus. However, all the taxes that nickle and dime you in Canada do add up.
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Old 09-13-2008, 11:37 AM   #73
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No, Canada should not squander its surplus. However, all the taxes that nickle and dime you in Canada do add up.
Yes, of course they do when we used to be paying 15%.

But when you are talking about one penny and then the party is running on that, it's ridiculous. Every economist basically laughed at and mocked the Conservatives for this shameless pandering because the truth it, reducing the GST by 1% (which was basically the essence and only point of their last campaign aside from the familiar "we will restore honour" meme) does nothing for people who need tax relief.
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Old 09-13-2008, 07:23 PM   #74
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Yes, of course they do when we used to be paying 15%.

But when you are talking about one penny and then the party is running on that, it's ridiculous. Every economist basically laughed at and mocked the Conservatives for this shameless pandering because the truth it, reducing the GST by 1% (which was basically the essence and only point of their last campaign aside from the familiar "we will restore honour" meme) does nothing for people who need tax relief.
If you really crunch the numbers, the 1% and now 2% GST reduction for a family at or below the poverty line amounts to some ridiculous pittance assuming 0% income is saved -- it might be as much as $280/year, but I think that's probably a pretty generous estimation. It was pandering at best.

Plus a lot of businesses get GST remitted to them, and depending on where you are in the production/distribution line some don't have to pay PST at all... so while our income tax laws and capital gains laws may reduce our competitiveness in the global scheme of things, I still get kindof tired of hearing businesses bitching about being too heavily taxed in Canada. The perhaps unfortunate reality for Canadians is that the developing economies with low tax rates (or no tax rates at all) and good investment opportunities (burgeoning development) are going to draw Canadian intellectual and financial capital out of Canada no matter what our tax rates are because even if we cut out the GST completely for everyone and reduce our income tax to a flat rate below our current lowest threshold, we'll still have higher taxes and higher overhead than these nations. There's still going to be a greater incentive for the resources to go to non-Canadian economies. I would rather see our government stay the course to some extent and maintain a given level of well-being for everyone through taxation than set a trend of pandering reductions with the hope that we can fulfill an economic fantasy.

The recent auto-industry bailouts haven't really helped the conservative party in my books, though. I may change my vote yet. The fact that anyone out there can have any faith whatsoever that they're going to recover and stay competitive without firing all the union staff and replacing them with non-union unskilled labourers at market rates (instead of GROSSLY overinflated rates) makes me want to move to Norway. Seriously. That there are people in this country who believe that Buzz Hargrove isn't the biggest crook out there blows my mind.
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Old 09-14-2008, 11:49 AM   #75
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How have you specifically benefited from saving 2 cents on the dollar? What have been the economic consequences of this decrease? Do you think that running down the surplus might be a bad thing?
This was a Liberal initiative under Paul Martin, not the Conservatives.
Allocation of school board funding is a provincial matter.
Really?
Stephen Harper is responsible for a completely different mortgage & banking situation in this country? How so?


Honestly i think what i think and you're not going to change how i feel, I'm Conservative and i'm happy with it thanks! I find the liberals are two-timing a lot more then any other party. i could be NDP, or green party too, but i really dis-like the liberals. Seriously you should be proud i'm even in this thread i don't see a lot of other 17 yr olds in here.
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