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Old 08-22-2011, 09:09 PM   #91
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It is not easy to fight for the left. It is easier to make simple choices based on economics and not give a shit about others. Jack was the polar opposite to that.

It is truly sad to consider that if he was healthy we might have seen the beginnings of a new dynamic in Ottawa.

The legacy he left in standing up for minority rights is remarkable. I can surely see the difference he has made. RIP
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Old 08-22-2011, 09:19 PM   #92
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I even gained more respect for him as I learned he was from a family of audiophiles.

Layton Audio
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Old 08-22-2011, 09:44 PM   #93
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It is not easy to fight for the left. It is easier to make simple choices based on economics and not give a shit about others. Jack was the polar opposite to that.
Of course there's the divide and a conservative could say:

It's easy to fight for the left. It's easier to always say yes when government interests ask for more money. They don't seem to give a shit about how hard people work to pay taxes.

Anyways continue with the eulogies.
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Old 08-22-2011, 09:55 PM   #94
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RIP Jack Layton
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Old 08-22-2011, 10:51 PM   #95
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They don't seem to give a shit about how hard people work to pay taxes.
(Half my raise this year went to taxes, which I'm still bitter about. And I will seemingly never get used to how high sales taxes are up here...)
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Old 08-22-2011, 11:16 PM   #96
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(Half my raise this year went to taxes, which I'm still bitter about. And I will seemingly never get used to how high sales taxes are up here...)
This is always the rub. Of course I'm happy I live in a province that doesn't have a provincial sales tax.....yet. ... and has a competive tax rate compared to some more left-leaning states in the U.S. but it still adds up as it is. Cities can jack up the property taxes too.

More progressive countries or regions leave people pretty tight. The best way is to deal with not just the deficit but the overall debt so programs can be funded more by the lack of interest needed to service a large debt. Alberta was able to spend more on education and healthcare because they froze salaries and benefits for a time (which equals a "cut" to the left) to slay the debt. Afterwards the income that would go to service the debt went into programs partially and tax cuts. It's not much different than sacrificing to bring a mortgage down so later on your cash-flow from your paycheque can go to other things. The opposite scenario as we saw in Greece: if spending and debt increase for too long without tax hikes then only actual cuts and tax increases can reverse the trend.
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Old 08-23-2011, 09:01 AM   #97
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(Half my raise this year went to taxes, which I'm still bitter about.
46%, and that means your raise came on top of at least a salary of $128K...for which you got a lot of nice perks that you wouldn't south of the border...
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Old 08-23-2011, 09:33 AM   #98
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that was a beautiful letter.
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Old 08-23-2011, 10:56 AM   #99
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46%, and that means your raise came on top of at least a salary of $128K...for which you got a lot of nice perks that you wouldn't south of the border...
I won't disclose my salary, but that's not even close (subtract at least 50% there). I do make more here than I ever did in the American Midwest, but the cost of living here is astronomical, and (I'll admit it's untenable) I definitely don't get those amazing tax refunds at the end of the year anymore like I'd get in the U.S. It just seems like between higher payroll deductions, much higher retail prices for the exact same item in the U.S., more than double the rate in sales taxes and inane user fees, in addition to a higher cost of living, I'm barely getting by.

I guess there's a cost for escaping U.S. theocratic lunacy and achieving a level of freedom and equality I don't expect to see back home until I'm old. And at least there's cross-border shopping with Amazon.com.
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Old 08-23-2011, 12:04 PM   #100
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I won't disclose my salary, but that's not even close (subtract at least 50% there). I do make more here than I ever did in the American Midwest, but the cost of living here is astronomical, and (I'll admit it's untenable) I definitely don't get those amazing tax refunds at the end of the year anymore like I'd get in the U.S.
The top combined tax rate in Ontario this year is 46% (and some change), and that is only on income over $128K. So that is why I made the comment - if you are taxed on income of 50% of that, there is no way you paid anywhere near 50% in taxes on your raise. I guess it just irks me when I see people commenting on how they pay half their income in taxes when in fact there isn't a single individual, billionaire or not, in this province who pays that much on a single dollar of income.

For the record, I paid more in income taxes when I lived in Manhattan. Sales tax was lower (and when I was there, no sales tax on clothes under a hundred bucks or so).
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Old 08-23-2011, 12:21 PM   #101
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The top combined tax rate in Ontario this year is 46% (and some change), and that is only on income over $128K. So that is why I made the comment - if you are taxed on income of 50% of that, there is no way you paid anywhere near 50% in taxes on your raise. I guess it just irks me when I see people commenting on how they pay half their income in taxes when in fact there isn't a single individual, billionaire or not, in this province who pays that much on a single dollar of income.
I did the calculations, and I'm taking home half of my raise (not half my income). Take from that what you will. I can conjecture that it's because I've crossed into a higher tax bracket with the raise, as I was already borderline before. Perhaps the deductions are too high, and I'll see a refund at the end of the year, but after my very paltry refund from this past tax year, I'm not holding my breath.

I'm generally happier living up here than living in the U.S. I like my job, I have more friends here, it's far easier to get away from people (more land and 1/10th the population of the U.S....huzzah!), politicians of pretty much all stripes here act like mature adults even if you disagree with their politics (I reserve most of my ire for the Liberals, whose actual governance seems to wildly diverge from their campaigning, but that's nowhere near as bad as with U.S. politicians), and the media here seems to have a real distaste for the tabloid fodder that passes for "news" back home, which really does nothing but unnecessarily scare people and dumb down the discourse.

I guess I mention all this, because I don't want to sound like a complainer. But yes, it does seem like a struggle to get ahead at times. I'm pretty much resigned to the fact that property ownership and children are out of the question; I'll never be able to afford either living in Toronto, and my line of work is limited to the big urban centres. The next stop for career advancement would be NYC, which we both know won't make life any more affordable.
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Old 08-23-2011, 01:41 PM   #102
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I guess it just irks me when I see people commenting on how they pay half their income in taxes when in fact there isn't a single individual, billionaire or not, in this province who pays that much on a single dollar of income.
Anitram, that is done to encourage money to come into the province and invest. I know it seems strange, but the province wants investor to invest and create job growth. It is not some conspiracy against the little guy. It is just sound economic practice. And I am kinda a leftie.
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Old 08-23-2011, 01:46 PM   #103
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Anitram, that is done to encourage money to come into the province and invest. I know it seems strange, but the province wants investor to invest and create job growth. It is not some conspiracy against the little guy. It is just sound economic practice. And I am kinda a leftie.
Which is ultimately why most "socialist" initiatives do little more than pummel the middle class, which isn't wealthy enough to tax dodge and not poor enough to qualify for handouts.
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Old 08-23-2011, 01:53 PM   #104
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Good point Melon. I don't if you have noticed or not, since being up here, but Canada is sort of classless. A grey wash. Probably not as much in Toronto, but it is in other parts. I can't remember anyone using a class based term that wasn't using the obligatory 'middle-class' during elections.
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Old 08-23-2011, 02:02 PM   #105
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Good point Melon. I don't if you have noticed or not, since being up here, but Canada is sort of classless. A grey wash. Probably not as much in Toronto, but it is in other parts. I can't remember anyone using a class based term that wasn't using the obligatory 'middle-class' during elections.
It's a loaded phrase even in the U.S., but I used it for lack of a better term. Rural Ontario really does seem to be quite uniform, now that I think about it.
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