Can Egypt hold it together? President's son, family flee to Britain - Page 10 - U2 Feedback

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Old 02-03-2011, 05:36 PM   #136
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Last fall, a bipartisan group of senators led a months-long drive to pass a resolution calling for greater freedom and democracy in Egypt. The resolution died last December due to a fatal mix of divided loyalties, lobbying influence, and secret Senate holds.
*Drops head on desk* That is some hilariously awesome/sad irony there, that is.

I also get a kick out of the striking difference between the reasons Feinstein and Wicker each apparently had for opposing the resolution.

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that's really beautiful, actually. let's hope that this image is a glimpse of a secular future.
Hear, hear. Thanks for that link, BoMac. Nice to see a moment of good amidst the chaos.

Really scary to hear that about Anderson being attacked, by the way. Yikes.

Angela
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Old 02-03-2011, 05:38 PM   #137
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I can't think of what they can be offered (the military, I mean.) But if its not sorted in maybe a maximum of the next 48 hours, it locks in a course for one of the several worst case scenarios, and locks out perhaps the best, or only, chance of actually getting an organic, genuine democracy in the Arab world. For some time anyway.
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Old 02-03-2011, 05:42 PM   #138
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I can't think of what they can be offered (the military, I mean.)
From my (albeit limited) understanding, the military, or at least the ranking officers, live rather well in Egypt and are definitely part of an upper class. Part of the US military subsidies has always gone to bolstering their salaries, assigning them with very nice homes in nice areas and so on. You can probably exploit their desire to maintain this lifestyle during and after a transitional stage by offering financial incentives, etc. I am not sure that this is in fact a good idea at all, but I am rather sure that in a part of the world where people are genuinely hungry, money goes a long way.
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Old 02-03-2011, 05:47 PM   #139
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that's really beautiful, actually. let's hope that this image is a glimpse of a secular future.
I've seen a number of protesters wearing a t-shirt that has both crescent and cross on it. It's got something written in Arabic across the top - have no idea what it says, hopefully its something along the coexist lines. Or "Fuck you Glenn Beck!" would suit me too. Anyway, look out for it, you'll spot it in a number of photos if you're paying attention, but probably more from the earlier student-heavy days of the protests. Black t-shirts, big white crescent/cross side by side. Lots of them.
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Old 02-03-2011, 05:50 PM   #140
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Amazing. And its also amazing that there are people who seriously believe Egypt's Christians and Muslims don't get along.
They believe it because there have been documented tensions/clashes between entities on those two sides. So it isn't a completely crazy notion, but it certainly isn't what Glenn Beck is suggesting, either.
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Old 02-03-2011, 05:58 PM   #141
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From my (albeit limited) understanding, the military, or at least the ranking officers, live rather well in Egypt and are definitely part of an upper class. Part of the US military subsidies has always gone to bolstering their salaries, assigning them with very nice homes in nice areas and so on. You can probably exploit their desire to maintain this lifestyle during and after a transitional stage by offering financial incentives, etc. I am not sure that this is in fact a good idea at all, but I am rather sure that in a part of the world where people are genuinely hungry, money goes a long way.
They also own half the country. State owned companies, industry, property = military. Thats probably where the sticking point would really be. Pretty tough, although other countries have been able to do it. Indonesia moved to democracy with the military still being allowed to hold onto a few, umm, 'strategic investments'. That's no model - corruption through the roof - but at least its an example they could maybe point to, as I would guess the military fear of democracy would be that they'd lose all of that, at some point.
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Old 02-03-2011, 06:05 PM   #142
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^ Right, by most estimates they control well over a third of Egypt's economy, with monopolies on producing everything from olive oil to pipeline to armaments for the public sector, as well as running splashy beach resorts, megamalls and 'gated communities' for the rich and expats. (It's illegal in Egypt to report on the military's finances; that info isn't public record, so no-one really knows for sure.) That doesn't mean they aren't also humiliated by their lack of battlefield cred and widespread perceptions that they've been bought off to serve the Israel-Egypt peace treaty (who really controls the Sinai? debatable); presumably, too, there are latent tensions between the higher and lower ranks which could be exploited, not to mention the already obvious ruptures between the internal security forces, the intelligence establishment, and the army. Still, it's a safe bet they won't give up those privileges easily.
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Old 02-03-2011, 07:40 PM   #143
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Mubarak tells ABC his resignation would cause chaos - CNN.com
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Old 02-03-2011, 08:33 PM   #144
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Day Of Departure, Feb. 4, 2011: Crowd To Call For Mubarak To Leave
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Old 02-03-2011, 09:45 PM   #145
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I know the reporter is from FOX News, but I don't think anyone here wishes violence on him and his cameraman:

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The Wrap reports that the Fox News team beaten and detained in Egypt were also accused of being Israeli spies.
The site writes that Greg Palkot and Olaf Wiig were taken to the hospital after being severely beaten—at which point they were detained by Egyptian military police, who accused them of being Israeli spies. Palkot was also blindfolded throughout the interrogation.
Fox News executives contacted the State Department, who helped secure the team's release.
ORIGINAL POST: Fox News foreign correspondent Greg Palkot and producer Olaf Wiig were badly beaten in Egypt on Wednesday night. As their colleague John Roberts described it on Thursday:
They were forced to leave their position when a Molotov cocktail was thrown at it, a large fire erupted. They were forced to flee. They ran out and ran right into the pro Mubarak crowd and were severely beaten and had to be taken to the hospital, spent the night in the hospital. The extent of their injuries was fairly grave, however, they have been released from the hospital.


Fox News' Greg Palkot Hospitalized In Egypt
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Old 02-03-2011, 10:19 PM   #146
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I know the reporter is from FOX News, but I don't think anyone here wishes violence on him and his cameraman
that made me laugh, a little
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Old 02-03-2011, 10:56 PM   #147
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Ergh, yeah, I feel sorry for anyone who's gotten caught up in this chaos. I wish Greg and Olaf a speedy recovery from their injuries.

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He told ABC News Thursday he would like to step down right away, but cannot because he does not want to risk plunging his nation into chaos.
*Looks at news reports, stories of beatings*

Uh, buddy? Think it's a wee bit late to worry about that...

Angela
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Old 02-04-2011, 01:58 AM   #148
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Reuters, BBC, CNN, FOX, al-Jazeera, al-Arabiya, and various smaller networks have all reported violent assaults on their reporters and crews...I remember reading last night that an al-Arabiya reporter had been beaten into a coma during an invasion of their Cairo bureau by pro-Mubarak thugs. For Arab journalists, this isn't new--Mubarak's forces have roughed up their reporters before--and neither is the "Israeli spies" accusation: Saudi media have reported on a (nonexistent) WikiLeaks cable exposing an Israeli-Qatari plot to undermine Egypt (al-Jazeera is Qatar-based); state-owned Egyptian media have alleged, incredibly, that there's a joint Mossad/US/Iran/Hezbollah/Hamas plot afoot to overthrow Mubarak; and one of the Guardian's bloggers noted yesterday that the pro-Mubarak goons were screaming "liars and Jews" at journalists. Ironically, these kinds of slurs from "allies" generally go unnoted in US media, despite all the freaking out about what might happen to the Israel-Egypt peace treaty under a possible Muslim Brotherhood-dominated government (a valid strategic concern, granted, but the grievances there are rational and could be addressed rationally, whereas this stuff...).



Reportedly Washington is now pushing hard behind the scenes for an interim government headed by Suleiman. Suleiman is himself a sinister creep and not reliably an improvement, not that my opinion matters; then again, as of now it's reportedly still unclear whether even Suleiman is willing to abandon Mubarak, so perhaps Washington's opinion won't matter either.
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Old 02-04-2011, 02:57 AM   #149
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doubt Suleiman would be well received though as he has been standing by Mubarak...

the attacks on foreigners are very worrying indeed...

i'm wondering what's going on with certain travel companies - i've read that some travel firms have stopped flights to the Red Sea resorts from all of their other European countries, but are still flying the Brits in LOL

as someone reported, the Brits will go anywhere if there's a £50 discount
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Old 02-04-2011, 03:30 AM   #150
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The people in the streets, the playstation generation, should be happy just to have Mubarack and his son out.

Suleiman would be fine as a caretaker leader, until an open and fair election.
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