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Old 05-14-2009, 03:02 PM   #16
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I think the guy will win on a tecnicality, then he needs to be slapped.

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Old 05-14-2009, 04:57 PM   #17
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No, we should all be Americans first of (insert country) descent.

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Yes, but I think the reasoning behind this was that where Irish Americans, Italian Americans, etc had a choice of being here; African Americans did not, so I think the term was meant as a sense of pride but also a reminder.

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In the context of US history though, this really isn't true.
Right, I agree and that's why I continued further and state that's how it's been used, but at face value the term doesn't refer to race, maybe I should have been clearer. But like Headache said, not all black people are African Americans, so it's kind of a misleading term these days...
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Old 05-14-2009, 05:03 PM   #18
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My Mom will say to my brother, "It's 10:00 and you still haven't done your homework!" And he'll say, "You're wrong, it's 9:58."

He's technically correct, but he's a giant asshole who knows he's missing the point.

Those selection of answers are almost always preceded by, "What race would you identify yourself as?" He knew exactly what it was asking, and it wasn't the time or the place for an argument over whether African-American should be used.
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Old 05-14-2009, 05:41 PM   #19
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not all black people are African Americans, so it's kind of a misleading term these days...
if they are in the U S they are

African American is the term used nowadays for Negro, or Black or darkie




which one is the Afican?

what would 100 people say?
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Old 05-14-2009, 05:49 PM   #20
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^African ≠ African-American
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Old 05-14-2009, 05:54 PM   #21
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European-African * African- American




African


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Old 05-14-2009, 05:57 PM   #22
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I don't understand why black doesn't suffice. I don't know a single black person offended by "black." I do know some white people who refuse to say it, though, as if it is rude to say black. I find it much easier and much less clumsy than "African-American."

That said, this guy's still nothing more than a smartass.
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Old 05-14-2009, 06:14 PM   #23
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I don't understand why black doesn't suffice. I don't know a single black person offended by "black."
In Canada, I believe the correct term is "Black Canadian," mainly because most blacks here are from the Caribbean and don't identify with Africa.

Frankly, subjects like this often need to take into account both the technical definitions, along with the cultural connotations that inevitably arise.
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Old 05-14-2009, 06:22 PM   #24
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A very important question we all must ask ourselves




What did our founding fathers intend? what are their beliefs?

This very well could come before a Judge that is a member of the Federalist Society.



thank god for google

here is a writing from 1751 from one of our greatest founding fathers


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Which leads me to add one Remark: That the Number of purely white People in the World is proportionably very small. All Africa is black or tawny. Asia chiefly tawny. America (exclusive of the new Comers) wholly so. And in Europe, the Spaniards, Italians, French, Russians and Swedes, are generally of what we call a swarthy Complexion; as are the Germans also, the Saxons only excepted, who with the English, make the principal Body of White People on the Face of the Earth. I could wish their Numbers were increased. And while we are, as I may call it, Scouring our Planet, by clearing America of Woods, and so making this Side of our Globe reflect a brighter Light to the Eyes of Inhabitants in Mars or Venus, why should we in the Sight of Superior Beings, darken its People? why increase the Sons of Africa, by Planting them in America, where we have so fair an Opportunity, by excluding all Blacks and Tawneys, of increasing the lovely White and Red? But perhaps I am partial to the Complexion of my Country, for such Kind of Partiality is natural to Mankind.
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Old 05-14-2009, 07:15 PM   #25
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European-African
Who says that, though? I've never heard anyone use that term.

If someone asked me to describe Charlize Theron by heritage, I would say she was South African-American. Specifying 'white' would be unnecessary; anyone can see that that's the case.
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Old 05-14-2009, 10:03 PM   #26
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No, we should all be Americans first of (insert country) descent.

<>
That is how I see myself. As an American. Whom, just happens to be of Irish/Scottish, Celtic decent. I only mention my ancestry, when asked.
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Old 05-14-2009, 10:04 PM   #27
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Who says that, though? I've never heard anyone use that term.

If someone asked me to describe Charlize Theron by heritage, I would say she was South African-American. Specifying 'white' would be unnecessary; anyone can see that that's the case.
Well, yes, white is a race, South African-American is a heritage. But the blurred line is where African-American seems to qualify as both.
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Old 05-14-2009, 10:16 PM   #28
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That is how I see myself. As an American. Whom, just happens to be of Irish/Scottish, Celtic decent. I only mention my ancestry, when asked.
I think that there is a difference between ethnicity and nationality.

Usually, I can tell which one the person is asking/curious about, and I answer accordingly.
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Old 05-14-2009, 10:23 PM   #29
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I think that there is a difference between ethnicity and nationality.
that is the crux of this whole conversation

one can not really guess someones nationality by looking at them


this really is about bias related to ethnicity
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Old 05-14-2009, 11:26 PM   #30
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But the blurred line is where African-American seems to qualify as both.
Right, it does, because of its origins in the unique historical context of US race relations. In fact, when the term first became popular, part of its perceived appeal was that it seemed just a bit more dignified, just a bit more formally respectful, than 'black' (and certainly than 'Negro')--precisely because it alluded to ancestral heritage rather than race, in something like the way 'Anglo-American', 'Polish-American,' etc. also do. And because the black/white distinction was historically intertwined (in the US) with a social system designed to preserve white supremacy, that made the option of a (theoretically) non-race-based collective identity all the more attractive--even if the vagueness of 'African' simultaneously underlined the fact that it wasn't really, and couldn't be, precisely analogous to the familiar white ethnic categories. So yes, it's murky, and you get paradoxes where for example Barack Obama socially has the option of identifying either as 'Kenyan-American' or 'African-American' if he wishes, whereas Charlize Theron doesn't really have the analogous option...but that's race in America for you.

In everyday speech, I personally mostly say 'black'; in my professional writing and in the classroom, I generally deliberately alternate about 50/50 between the two terms. I've never myself had any black/African-American friends who actively object to the term 'black'; I've known a few who strongly prefer 'African-American' in most social contexts, as well as a few who consider it a pointless affectation and never use it themselves. No problem by me either way.

I do know from experience that the way our particular social identity categories work is sometimes vexing to recent immigrants from elsewhere, perhaps especially to white people from various African countries. (I've also known a few Indian- and Pakistani-Americans whom, upon casually referring to themselves as 'Asian-American,' were taken aback to receive a response to the effect of 'Well, you're not really,' from Americans accustomed to exclusively associating that label with Americans of East/Southeast Asian descent.) All this disorientation is understandable, and usually pointless to fly off the handle over.

Then there's also multiracial identity, but that's a whole other story...
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