The pretentiousness to think our technology and education alone makes us "wiser" than previous generations I find very off-putting.
Except nobody has said such a thing. Certainly technology doesn't make us wiser, we have it, but we have used it for just as many stupid things as we have for brilliant ones (though I would also note that every generation will likely find its innovations proof of its improvement over past generations, this attitude would be nothing new for those who do have such a thing). I have every single respect for people who are able to maintain simpler lifestyles.
All we're saying is that it seems a bit odd to use a book from 2,000 years ago to rule every aspect of our lives today. Certainly there are some lessons that matter to this day, but we're still using it today to legislate whether or not two people of the same sex can be married. We used it to legislate whether people of different races could mix. We used it to make women seem second class and subservient to their husbands, and to freak out over women's health issues (menstruation, pregnancy, hormonal stuff, etc.) that people of the eras the book was written in did not have any scientific basis for understanding. And so on. You should be able to see where this would pose a bit of a problem in our current culture, right?
You can learn from and respect the past in some sense, yes, but there is a reason why we have moved on from that time period. There is a reason why the culture of 2,000 years ago changed or died away. Because a new way of doing things and understanding things happened with each generation that followed. Thousands of years from now people will be doing things drastically different from what we do today. Things change. They always have and always will. And if they're detrimental changes, they should be dealt with, but some of them are not problematic at all, they're just the result of people learning more and understanding things better.
What discussion? It's FYM going off in a tangent over something nobody has said.
I was speaking in a general society sense, but I just find it bizarre in this day and age that we still have to have a debate over whether or not a 2,000 plus year old document should be the main basis for everyone living their lives today in terms of sexuality. Christians can model their sexual mores on the Bible all they wish, I don't care, but why do some of those same Christians think I need to follow suit? Why should I listen to the words of men from thousands of years ago who didn't have the first clue what the hell went on in my body during my time of the month, or didn't have a proper understanding of homosexuality, or thought you'd be punished by God for masturbating, or whatever?
That's not an endorsement of Old Testament legalism (that I've previously mentioned Christ rendered obsolete for his followers). But just because I don't proscribe to those laws I'm not condescending enough, historian or anthropologist enough to flatly judge their beliefs as "bullshit."
There is a difference between a belief and flat out repeating falsehoods. If you believe there is an afterlife, for instance, I cannot disprove that for certain, and you cannot prove that for certain. So you are entitled to believe an afterlife of some sort exists, just as I'd be entitled to believe it doesn't. Neither side is automatically right or wrong, and we'll find out the answer when the time comes.
But if you sit there and say, for instance, that the sun revolves around the Earth, and the evidence is there to clearly prove you wrong, but you keep insisting it to be true anyway, either knowingly or unknowingly, then yes, you should be called out on your ignorance. Or stupidity. Or bullshit. Or whatever term you wish to use.
When facts stare you in the face and you refuse to acknowledge them, you do need to be called out on it.
Doesn't stop Dan Savage and y'all though !!
Dan Savage was talking about, "the bullshit of ...menstruation, virginity, masturbation... in the Bible" all off which fall into the category of human sexuality. So how does this become just about homosexuality?
I think we got onto that specific topic because of the original issue, which is bullying, and the fact that gay kids are getting a pretty good amount of bullying of late. Parents who won't accept them, kids at school who taunt them and harass them, politicians willing to make laws that discriminate against them, and being proud to do so, no less, schools being denied the opportunity to talk about the subject at all, thus adding to the idea that homosexuality is something that is shameful and mustn't be spoken of.
And what is one of the big reasons so many of those things are happening? Because those very people are using a Bible to justify such actions. So yeah, pardon Dan Savage for calling those people out and showing them just how insane and hurtful and damaging their attitudes are. Children are hurting and killing themselves because someone felt the need to beat it into their heads that the Bible says who they are is wrong and they should "repent" and "change their ways" otherwise they're committing some sort of horrific sin against God.
That is most definitely bullshit of the highest order, that mindset. And if someone's offended by him calling it that? Too bad. What they say is just as offensive, so I guess we're even, then.
The Bible has a lot to say about sexuality. It tells me that sexuality is sacred. A gift from God. That's bullshit? The Bible teaches me the importance of faithfulness. Is that a bad thing? It talks about the dangers of uncontrolled lust. Is that not without merit? And yes, billions of people over thousands of years have lived very happy lives following this "bullshit."
That is not what he's calling "bullshit". Agh. Many would argue that those are indeed worthwhile values.
What he's protesting is this idea that only good religious people have that attitude. That if you're not Christian, somehow clearly this means you're all for sleeping with whomever you want without any consequences or control. That if you're a good Christian you'll be against sex outside of marriage, or homosexuality, or birth control, or masturbation, or "uncontrolled lust", whatever that means, or whatever other sorts of things "good Christians" don't do (and by the way, don't kid yourself, many of them have done, are doing, or will do most, if not all, of those things at some point).
Allow me to illustrate my point for you personally. As I've said, I am not a Christian. But here's a possible shocker for you: my sex life would be about as conservative as it comes! I haven't "been with" anyone, so to speak. No one specific reason as to why, it just hasn't happened for me yet. I prefer a monogamous relationship when I do date. I'm not big on the idea of sleeping with someone I'm not in a relationship with. This is how
I personally wish to live my life.
HOWEVER, I don't care if other people do things differently in regards to their sex lives, because
it's really none of my damned business. I don't see anything wrong with homosexuality. I think gay couples should be allowed to get married, and raise children, if they so wish. If you want to experiment with different sexual activities, if you don't want to get married, if you do the one night stand thing, whatever, go for it.
I. Don't. Care.
The only things I ever care about in relation to sexuality and society are that everyone is safe and responsible when they have sex (using protection, getting tested for diseases, proper education on whatever sexual activities they're doing, etc.), are of legal age, and fully consenting. Beyond that, believe me, I have WAY more important, pressing things in my life to worry about than whether or not someone's involved in a threesome, or a gay couple is sleeping together, or a couple has an open relationship, or whatever. And I find it incredibly bizarre that so many people out there DO care so intently about such things, and that they use a centuries old book to legislate what people do in the privacy of their bedrooms. Those who do such things might want to learn the art of minding their own business. And if they're going to sit there and pass judgment, fine, that is their right, but then they shouldn't be surprised or complain when people turn around and do it to them in return (again, "eye for an eye", remember? As the Bible itself would say?), or demand a logical reason as to WHY they shouldn't do what they're doing. Especially if those doing the judging falter in their "good Christian" path and do some of the very things they told others they shouldn't do.
We're human. We're not perfect. Some would do well to remember this.
The Dan Savages of the word have nothing but contempt for moral absolutes. He claims to have the knowledge of moral bullshit and non-bullshit -- of good and evil. The Bible teaches about that too.
Yes, it does. Doesn't mean its take on the subject is automatically right any more than Dan Savage's take is.
Adding to the
to ladyfreckles' post.