Bullying - What Can Be Done?

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Achtung11 said:
:hug:

Wow, when I made my post above, I didn't realize that you and I were in the same boat.
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:hug:

I'm sure it was tough and the bullying took its toll over the years. I hope you're in a more peaceful point in your life.
 
have to say, in my own experience of being bullied, i used to try putting a brave face on and laughing about it or ignoring it, trying to show that it wasn't getting to me or trying to pretend that i hadn't actually noticed lol... nowadays, if it happens, i again try avoidance/pretend not to notice, and then get upset afterwards and think of all the clever things i should have said in response...

i did retaliate once when i was young, at school, and kicked the boy really hard in the shin, i was so mad! he never hassled me again after that, and i got quite a bit of "respect" - really hurt my foot though lol...

i really really hate bullies... i have a tendency to wade in and stand up for others more than i stand up for myself though...

also, as a parent, i'm very conscious of bullying among the kids at school here, and it's something i will not tolerate, and hope i have educated my kids well enough not bully or tolerate bullies...
 
BVS said:
You can't tell if it's bullying from this video. And his patience just shows to me that he's had some formal training and he's disciplined.
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From the youtube video description:

A DAD seen flattening a yob in a clip sweeping the internet was yesterday unmasked as an ex-soldier - with TWO black belts.
The Sun tracked down Gulf War veteran Jason Smith, 35, who said: "He deserved it."
Burly Jason - a 15st master in karate and jiu-jitsu - was filmed felling the foul-mouthed idiot outside his home as a crowd gathered.

The clip has been viewed 200,000 times on The Sun's website.

Jason, who has been a bodyguard to stars, had no idea why local "hard nut" Les Andrews stood on his step ranting and raving in St Helens, Merseyside, while his mate Alan Hodson looked on.

He decked him with a single blow. Wife Rebecca, 23, who had cowered with 22-month daughter Boudiccia, said: "I was proud."

Andrews, 23, was arrested and hit with a curfew for yobbery.

Jason said of becoming a web sensation: "People sick of yob culture enjoy seeing someone turn the tables."

Thug Martial Arts Humiliated The Sun Jab Fight Yob UK Karate Jason Smith Jiu-Jitsu Gulf War Veteran A thug is seen hurling abuse at a man on his doorstep and trying to goad him into a fight - unaware his "victim" is a martial artist.
Jason Smith is a Gulf War Veteran with two Black Belts..
He is a Master in Karate and Jiu-Jitsu.
Les Andrews, what a scally.
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It was 'yobbery'. I had no idea this was a "culture". :giggle:
 
purpleoscar said:
From the youtube video description:

It was 'yobbery'. I had no idea this was a "culture". :giggle:
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Right, but like yolland said the term "bullying" is being over used and I don't see anything in this video or description that makes for certain that it was bullying. To me it just looks like a gratuitous example of "he deserved it" violence.
 
mama cass said:
i did retaliate once when i was young, at school, and kicked the boy really hard in the shin, i was so mad! he never hassled me again after that, and i got quite a bit of "respect" - really hurt my foot though lol...
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I did that when I was a little kid too once!

Except I had these hard leather orthopedic shoes (yeah, they were as horrifying to wear as they sound... :sigh: ), so when I kicked the kid (it was a girl in my case) it really hurt her, but didn't hurt me a bit. :evil:

I will say I was shocked when I did it...I was sitting at my desk with my arms crossed in front of me and my head down (just trying to ignore it) and this girl was standing in front of me calling me names and teasing me, much to the delight of the little group of girls standing about 10 feet away egging her on. All of a sudden my foot just shot out and connected with her shin hard -- it sounded a bit like whan a bat really connects with a baseball. It was as if my foot had a mind of it's own...I didn't think "I'm gonna kick the bitch" it was as if my mind wasn't connected with my body for a second there. It was rather disconcerting, but also pretty damned satisfying.

Stopped that incident of harassment, but didn't change much overall.
 
indra said:
It was rather disconcerting, but also pretty damned satisfying.
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Sometime it does the soul good:evil:

I wasn't bullied in school. I was one of the bullies. I would target people. I didn't do it all the time and I am fairly sure I wouldn't have gone to some of the extent I've seen. But I hurt people. There was certainly a power play, a predatory bloodlust in play there. It took some retraining for me.
 
The Atlantic, Nov. 2
Bullying research, it seems, has focused more on understanding aggressors, not the aggrieved. Given how pervasive and brutal bullying is, however, it's hard to justify a prevention-heavy approach to research that neglects treatment. A new study in the journal Child Development aims to correct this imbalance. Instead of asking why bullies bully, scientists led by University of Illinois psychology professor Karen D. Rudolph are beefing up the coping side of bullying research by looking into why victims retaliate, ignore, or repair relationships after an attack. Through a series of surveys to 373 second-graders and their teachers, they investigated how each child approached and valued his or her peer relationships, how many of the children had been bullied, and how they responded to such attacks.

...Though it wasn't astounding to find out that half of the children reported being the object of taunts, gossip, or intimidation, how they reacted to their harassers was. The key to anticipating victims' responses, it turns out, is to figure out their motivations for interacting with their peers in the first place. That is, kids who wanted to be popular and feel superior tended to retaliate impulsively. Those who wanted to appear cool by avoiding criticisms were more likely to pretend like nothing happened. And those who were genuinely interested in fostering friendships tended to react in healthful, positive ways. They asked their teacher for advice, sought emotional support, and found means to solve the tension with those who harassed them. Promoting an egoless approach to building relationships that encourages children to react in such mindful ways is key to protecting kids from the psychological blowback of bullying. Rudolph's study shows that kids who are able to respond with care have better mental health than those who respond to stress thoughtlessly. As University of Maine psychologist Cynthia Erdley puts it, "Children who adopt pro-social development goals seem to be well-prepared to deal adaptively with the challenges they are likely to experience."

The tendency of the effects of bullying to worsen when left untreated underscores the need for early intervention as well. Rudolph and her team, who followed the children through the third grade, noticed that, the more frequently children were bullied, the more likely they were "to freeze up or to keep going over it in their mind, but not actually do something about it." A previous study on mistreated kids in middle school also found that responding to bullies violently, impulsively, or in over-the-top ways can make the abused less accepted and a more attractive target to aggressors.

Another way to improve victim behavior may be to inculcate the value of working on relationships, according to an earlier study by Rudolph. Children who believed friendships are fixed, succeeding or failing without their involvement, tended to be more enamored with popularity and may be more vengeful as a result. On the contrary, those who viewed their friendships as works in progress tended to appreciate their peers more and interact more responsibly. "If children believe that effort is worthwhile, they'll feel less threatened or helpless when they hit bumps in their relationships," she says, "and they'll be more likely to try to resolve relationship problems."

Further research is needed to see if these victim-oriented strategies apply beyond middle childhood, as the politics of bullying becomes infinitely more complicated as kids get older. Seeking help from teachers, which is considered a viable recourse for kids in elementary, may incite ridicule and more attacks from high school bullies, for example. Tweens and teens, especially girls, also become much savvier bullies with time. Targets of so-called "mean girls" may have to learn to detect and counter a less overt form of bullying, called relational aggression, that involves spreading rumors or excluding peers. Victims may also feel weighed down by reputations that are harder to shake off, especially online. And, naturally, adolescents may be especially inclined to improve their image to impress others as hormones kick in. Still, teaching kids how to deal with bullies while they are young gives them their best chance of managing future conflicts. "If we can identify early patterns of interactions that emerge during this time, whether adaptive or maladaptive," says Rudolph, "then we can figure out ways to optimize children's social and mental health before they progress toward potentially more serious problems during the adolescent years."
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BonosSaint said:
Sometime it does the soul good:evil:

I wasn't bullied in school. I was one of the bullies. I would target people. I didn't do it all the time and I am fairly sure I wouldn't have gone to some of the extent I've seen. But I hurt people. There was certainly a power play, a predatory bloodlust in play there. It took some retraining for me.
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Honest post. I think the majority of us are entirely capable of such behaviour, and worse, TBH. You have your sociopaths/psychopaths, but the majority of bullies are probably not of that type, and behaviour modification/re-training can work for the majority.

I've had personal experience of, in my view, bullying from a senior manager. The mere brandishing of a copy of the organisation's anti-bullying code - with a colleague present as witness - was sufficient to achieve behaviour modification.

On the other hand, I've seen people get away with totally sub-standard work performance, either because their bosses were afraid to rock the boat and take on the union, or because their bosses were just poor, ineffective and/or insufficiently assertive managers.

I guess my basic opinion on bullying, at least as it pertains to the work place, is that managers should be allowed to get on with managing, but there should be tough anti-bullying procedures in place also.
 
I agree. I was bullied a few years ago at work. One reason why it happened is because I work in media, which is by nature cut throat. But another reason why it occurred was because the boss who was in charge of us entry-level people, didn't have the backbone to stop it.
 
^Truth that.

There is too much tolerance for bullying. Too much tolerance for all sorts of bad behavior. We all look away too much. It can be lessened if all the good people spoke up, stood up, held the bullies accountable consistently, made it socially unacceptable to bully, embarass the bullies. But we probably won't do it.
 
I don't know...while there will always be bullies of all ages, it sure seems to me that I saw far, far more of it as a child in school than I have in the workplace as an adult. I've worked full-time for a little over two decades now, in two very different kinds of careers, and I can only think of one person I've worked with whom I'd describe as a bully (he was a pretty epic one though, wound up going down in flames with multiple lawsuits against him). Whereas in school and especially during the K-8 years, I'd say I saw it weekly or more. Of course different kinds of workplaces have different social cultures, and no one sees and hears everything that happens in their workplace, but still. Besides, when you're talking behavioral patterns that tend to persist throughout life unless decisively addressed early--like bullying, and poor responses to bullying--childhood would seem to be the ideal stage to focus concerted efforts on. So long as the scope of the problem being focused on and the goals being aimed for are clearly defined.
 
i was brought up in a family of bullies - my father bullied my eldest brother, eldest brother bullied my middle brother, middle brother bullied me, i would cry, then eldest brother would beat the crap out of middle brother to defend me

i know how bullies work - i saw the master bully in action very close at hand while growing up... so i'm very conscious of trying my best not to be like him! my greatest fear is to turn into my dad, and i've said to my husband he must kick me into touch if i show any sign of doing so LOL!!!

in the family, it's such a destructive thing - it was divide and rule! and has totally wrecked my extended family, it's pretty sad!

given the chance these days, i.e., if any of us actually bothers to make the call and speak to him, he will still talk down to us quite horribly and offensively, and treat us like "kids" and takes all the credit for our professional "success" when he did fuck all, it's quite hilarious... but he seriously cannot cope with being corrected, argued with, or when we talk back to him like adults... we tiptoed around him and appeased him all our lives while living under his roof, and after a while, you just can't do that any more without it being seriously damaging to your own mental wellbeing... but the upshot is, we have no relationship, which cuts when he is the only surviving parent... the saddest thing is, he doesn't value people, and just cannot see what he is missing out on... we're all just his "evil naughty disobedient children"! so yeah, bullying is a pretty destructive horrible thing... it has totally trashed my (extended) family... none of us (apart from me and my eldest brother) basically have anything to do with each other any more...
 
^ That sounds awful, particularly the longterm damage to family ties. I like what you said about being aware of the dangers of your own knowledge of how those dynamics work. I understand a little about family bullying. My next oldest brother was severely afflicted with Tourette's as a child and was frequently bullied (often physically, as in beaten up) by other kids as a "freak." He became a sullen, angry kid who directed his desires for physical revenge at me (when our parents weren't around of course), and since I was considerably smaller, I was pretty much helpless to defend myself. The result was that I became hypersensitive and hyperdefensive towards any physical taunt whatsoever, no matter how slight--I was that kid where if you fleetingly thwacked me in the cheek with your thumb and forefinger, I'd grab someone's metal lunchbox and bash you repeatedly in the face, or kick you in the knees so hard you'd be limping the rest of the day, one time I pounded an older kid over the head with a rock until his scalp bled. It took several years and several "discussions" with teachers and my parents before it finally sunk in that this was a dangerous and stupid way to react. I never attacked anyone who hadn't physically taunted me first, and verbal taunts I seldom responded to at all, but in those days I was perpetually primed to react 5000% at the first hint anyone saw me as physically vulnerable. Thankfully my younger siblings weren't around until I'd outgrown that phase, otherwise I'd have probably turned around and done to them what he did to me, just like you describe. Sometimes there can be longterm psychological advantages to being the most "helpless" one within the situation.
 
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I have seen a lot of bullying in the workplace. I've generally lucked out because I hide my weaknesses well and I'm beyond caring. But I see a lot of people experiencing it. While in my workplace, the bully is a man, what I've seen in a lot of other places is woman on woman bullying--the demeaning, the undercutting, the careful to do it when no one is watching strategy, the innuendo, the shunning, the "you're crazy" when the bully is called out--the invalidating of the other. Women are very clever at it. And some men hire that type of woman to be their bully by proxy. It gets around the discrimination claims. Maybe it is the social culture. Petty small town tyrant shit, maybe. But I've heard of a lot of it. I think it's gotten more refined.

I understand concentrating on the young. But I'm pretty sure without re-enforcement down the line, the lesson's not going to take. Nobody changes until they see a benefit to themselves for changing.
 
Back in the early 90s schools begin to punish not only the
one who started the fight, but the student who fought back.

Today, in the school where I work, both students are expelled
for five days or more.

It seems to me that bullying has increased since the early 1990s.

The victims, knowing the consequences, or less inclined to fight back.


This policy, I think, has only compounded the problem.


Bullying is as old as dust and sometimes the dust needs to be hit
in the nose.
 
I don't think bullying has increased whatsoever. I think it was much, much worse when I was a kid. I think there is a lot more attention given to the topic now, which makes it seem like it's happening more and more often.

:shrug: maybe its just the school I work in, but I don't see the same cliq's that dominated high school when I went. Kids are pretty much readily accepted for who they are across the board.

I was an awkward, gangly kid with a girls name through elementary school and middle school. I know a thing or two about being bullied. :shrug:

Its certainly not gone, and some of it can still be downright vicious... but I think the more attention given to the issue has made it less wide spread, at least where I am.
 
It seems that bullying has become more psychological? Like all the 'net stalking kind of stuff. My parents tell stories about when they were kids how people would just creep behind someone and beat a kid up. Maybe it's the schools I went to but I can only remember one (ongoing) instance of a kid physically bullying another kid for no reason.
 
Headache in a Suitcase said:
:shrug: maybe its just the school I work in, but I don't see the same cliq's that dominated high school when I went. Kids are pretty much readily accepted for who they are across the board.
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I'd imagine it has largely moved online or outside the classroom. I think the trope of slamming the nerd into the gym locker might be on the decline, but the internet is a terrible, terrible place to be a teenage girl these days.
 
Jive Turkey said:
:sad: but they were glorious days, weren't they?
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R4E4U.jpg
 
Yes I think it's the way bullying is done now. It used to be kids could escape it once they left school and the school bus. No way would most kids dare to call your house (if they could even get the number) or show up at your house. More likely there'd be a parent there and more likely you'd get your butt kicked (not literally in most cases but the effect is there) by said parents.

Now with kids having cell phones and social media and who knows what else there's really no escaping it. It might be that the no escape factor is more psychologically and emotionally damaging then the actual bullying is. And unless parents constantly check the kids' phones and monitor social media, it can be done so much more without any parental knowledge. All of those factors empower bullies, and take power away from the bullied.

Kids and adults will both bully more when they don't even have to face a person and when they can justify more that their words are just words. I think both are also more likely to gang up on someone than they were before the net and everything else. Anonymity emboldens some people.

You can observe the same types of behaviors on the net that you used to observe in school when kids thought no one was looking. It's just all pervasive and more vicious. Among kids and adults.
 
If the parent doesn't constantly check the young teen's cell phone and online activity, that parent isn't doing a very good job of parenting.

I don't think it's ever going away. The so called strong will always pick on the so called weak. It's always happened throughout history, and even happens within the animal kingdom.

In my experience it's much less widespread than it was, and kids in general are MUCH more accepting today than when I was a kid... but that the really bad cases of bullying today are worse than the really bad cases back then because of the power of social media and the internet.
 
I always thought focusing on school bullying was was funny because it is so pervasive in 'adult life' as well.

It would be great to see adults lead by example and then have that filter down.

The thing to remember is that some teenage kids are just mustering up the energy to get to school, let alone fight back to bullies.
 
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