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Old 05-01-2012, 08:02 PM   #211
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view of human sexuality as understood by billions of people for thousands of years
If this doesn't set off any alarm bells, nothing will. Does your doctor still practice Miasma Theory? Blood letting? Do you still ascribe pregnancy to double seed theory? If you came across someone from 2000 years ago, you'd think he was an idiot
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Old 05-01-2012, 08:28 PM   #212
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It's the way we've always done things, but it's different than those other ways we've always done things that turned out to be misguided, you guys. INDY's right on this one. Homosexuality is wrong because it just is wrong. You either feel that truth or you don't. INDY does. He knows it to be. And thus, gays cannot get married, because INDY knows he's right in his heart of hearts, even if he cannot scrap together one shred of a coherent argument against it. We've always done it this way, it must be right. Don't compare it to slavery or considering minorities to be inferior, because it's different. Why is it different? Because INDY just knows it is.
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Old 05-01-2012, 09:09 PM   #213
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But isn't it a bit of a reduction as well when Dan Savage declares the Biblical view of human sexuality as understood by billions of people for thousands of years as "bullshit"?
Those people believed a lot of things that were proven wrong. People at one time believed the world was flat and that the sun revolved around the Earth because the Bible supposedly said so, in their eyes. I think you would agree that line of thinking is "bullshit", right?

There was no logical, scientific, rational reason for their view of sexuality. They felt that way about sexuality because they thought that's what some supposed being in the sky believed. So, no, it's NOT a "reduction" to call out that line of thinking as "bullshit", it's spot on.

Here, let's take religion out of the equation for a minute. Answer me this, INDY-are there any other NON-religious reasons why homosexuality should be frowned upon? Please answer this. I'd like to know what you have to say.

Oh, and as for that jackass pastor...anyone else in the mood to give him a taste of his own "advice"? What a loser.
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Old 05-01-2012, 10:12 PM   #214
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Really? You know very well that "does in his bedroom." was the boilerplate critique of anyone critical of the gay lifestyle. "What do you care what someone does in their bedroom?" And actually most people would agree with that or that the bullying of a child because you know or suspect they're gay is simply wrong.

But isn't it a bit of a reduction as well when Dan Savage declares the Biblical view of human sexuality as understood by billions of people for thousands of years as "bullshit"?
Hold up here.

Human sexuality was never "understood" by people who followed the bible, especially considering the original language the bible is in does not differentiate. On top of that, our scientific understanding of how the human mind works is very recent. Secondly, there is no "gay" lifestyle. It's not even an opinion, it's a fact. In the womb, your sexuality is decided around the same time you get your genitals. This is recent stuff. Previously homosexuality, like many natural things that people deem to be uncommon/different, was considered to be a mental illness.

Homosexuality was also very common and considered natural thousands of years ago. Look up "sexuality in ancient egypt/greece/etc". I do consider someone's beliefs to be "bull" if science has already disproven them. It's not a lifestyle. It's not unnatural, and in regards to "intelligent design", if anything it's God's mistake. Biologically if were all homosexual we would have died out years ago. Though one could argue the many benefits to having that as a sexuality in tribal times: for one, it would be two people you could count on to never get pregnant and have to give up their duties to the community because they have to raise their kids.
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Old 05-01-2012, 10:40 PM   #215
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People have done a bang up job of understanding gender for thousands of years, haven't they.
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Old 05-01-2012, 11:12 PM   #216
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Seriously. We're honestly still having such a discussion in 2012? Really? People still, for real, buy into that line of thinking to this day?

Man, the place I note in my location fits really well some days.
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Old 05-01-2012, 11:47 PM   #217
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Seriously. We're honestly still having such a discussion in 2012? Really? People still, for real, buy into that line of thinking to this day?

Man, the place I note in my location fits really well some days.
For some people it takes a very long time, especially when they are older and have held these beliefs since a time when homosexuality was wildly considered to be (and treated medically as) a mental illness. Some people are raised by parents who are stuck in this belief system. It's also easy to not pay attention to science as you get older because, let's face it, there's just too much to keep up on top of what these people already know. I don't blame anyone for holding these beliefs, I just try to educate them. The neurological development of human sexuality wasn't put into child development/psychology textbooks until very recently.
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Old 05-02-2012, 12:06 AM   #218
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The homosexual former leader of our most socially progressive party underwent electric shock therapy in the 70s to attempt to cure himself. So glad we've made progress since then.
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Old 05-02-2012, 03:17 AM   #219
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Fuck it, I'm going back to punching some ladies. They really knew how to do it in the '50s, am I right? Low taxes, lots of jobs, no blacks and lady punching! Let's live it up like Mad Men is in the future, you guys.
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Old 05-02-2012, 08:48 AM   #220
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Tax rates in the 1950s were much higher than they are today.
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Old 05-02-2012, 01:24 PM   #221
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Homophobic? Maybe You’re Gay
By RICHARD M. RYAN and WILLIAM S. RYAN

WHY are political and religious figures who campaign against gay rights so often implicated in sexual encounters with same-sex partners?

In recent years, Ted Haggard, an evangelical leader who preached that homosexuality was a sin, resigned after a scandal involving a former male prostitute; Larry Craig, a United States senator who opposed including sexual orientation in hate-crime legislation, was arrested on suspicion of lewd conduct in a men’s bathroom; and Glenn Murphy Jr., a leader of the Young Republican National Convention and an opponent of same-sex marriage, pleaded guilty to a lesser charge after being accused of sexually assaulting another man.

One theory is that homosexual urges, when repressed out of shame or fear, can be expressed as homophobia. Freud famously called this process a “reaction formation” — the angry battle against the outward symbol of feelings that are inwardly being stifled. Even Mr. Haggard seemed to endorse this idea when, apologizing after his scandal for his anti-gay rhetoric, he said, “I think I was partially so vehement because of my own war.”

It’s a compelling theory — and now there is scientific reason to believe it. In this month’s issue of the Journal of Personality and Social Psychology, we and our fellow researchers provide empirical evidence that homophobia can result, at least in part, from the suppression of same-sex desire.

Our paper describes six studies conducted in the United States and Germany involving 784 university students. Participants rated their sexual orientation on a 10-point scale, ranging from gay to straight. Then they took a computer-administered test designed to measure their implicit sexual orientation. In the test, the participants were shown images and words indicative of hetero- and homosexuality (pictures of same-sex and straight couples, words like “homosexual” and “gay”) and were asked to sort them into the appropriate category, gay or straight, as quickly as possible. The computer measured their reaction times.

The twist was that before each word and image appeared, the word “me” or “other” was flashed on the screen for 35 milliseconds — long enough for participants to subliminally process the word but short enough that they could not consciously see it. The theory here, known as semantic association, is that when “me” precedes words or images that reflect your sexual orientation (for example, heterosexual images for a straight person), you will sort these images into the correct category faster than when “me” precedes words or images that are incongruent with your sexual orientation (for example, homosexual images for a straight person). This technique, adapted from similar tests used to assess attitudes like subconscious racial bias, reliably distinguishes between self-identified straight individuals and those who self-identify as lesbian, gay or bisexual.

Using this methodology we identified a subgroup of participants who, despite self-identifying as highly straight, indicated some level of same-sex attraction (that is, they associated “me” with gay-related words and pictures faster than they associated “me” with straight-related words and pictures). Over 20 percent of self-described highly straight individuals showed this discrepancy.

Notably, these “discrepant” individuals were also significantly more likely than other participants to favor anti-gay policies; to be willing to assign significantly harsher punishments to perpetrators of petty crimes if they were presumed to be homosexual; and to express greater implicit hostility toward gay subjects (also measured with the help of subliminal priming). Thus our research suggests that some who oppose homosexuality do tacitly harbor same-sex attraction.

What leads to this repression? We found that participants who reported having supportive and accepting parents were more in touch with their implicit sexual orientation and less susceptible to homophobia. Individuals whose sexual identity was at odds with their implicit sexual attraction were much more frequently raised by parents perceived to be controlling, less accepting and more prejudiced against homosexuals.

It’s important to stress the obvious: Not all those who campaign against gay men and lesbians secretly feel same-sex attractions. But at least some who oppose homosexuality are likely to be individuals struggling against parts of themselves, having themselves been victims of oppression and lack of acceptance. The costs are great, not only for the targets of anti-gay efforts but also often for the perpetrators. We would do well to remember that all involved deserve our compassion.

Richard M. Ryan is a professor of psychology, psychiatry and education at the University of Rochester. William S. Ryan is a doctoral student in psychology at the University of California, Santa Barbara.
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Old 05-02-2012, 01:48 PM   #222
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I remember back in grade 7 I had a teacher who was a lesbian. I can't remember how it came up, but I remember her saying something similar to what that article was talking about; many times, homophobia is a product of repressed homosexual urges. And she herself battled with similar feelings when she was younger.
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Old 05-02-2012, 02:23 PM   #223
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the GOP is living proof of this phenomenon.
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Old 05-02-2012, 02:28 PM   #224
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you realize that is not a GOP problem, (there are plenty of Democrats that live in the closet and make fun of gays)

it is the individual's problem, it is the gay person themselves that is not being honest about who, what they really are.
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Old 05-02-2012, 03:10 PM   #225
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you realize that is not a GOP problem, (there are plenty of Democrats that live in the closet and make fun of gays)

it is the individual's problem, it is the gay person themselves that is not being honest about who, what they really are.
I view it more as a problem with our society.
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