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Old 04-28-2012, 10:51 PM   #166
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Dan Savage discusses bible at High School Journalism convention - YouTube

Dan Savage is a vicious, hateful religious bigot.
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Old 04-28-2012, 11:55 PM   #167
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Gee, touch of hyperbole there? I mean, just a little bit?

I posted the text of this earlier. Pointing out inconsistencies in te application of certain Biblical rules or mandates is hardly extraordinary, or new, or even remarkable.

Seems you enjoy feeling like a victim, and the whole "bigot card" thing.
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Old 04-29-2012, 12:16 AM   #168
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I completely agree with Savage (yeah yeah, I know, I'm a vicious, hateful bigot), but the venue does make it seem a little rude to me.
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Old 04-29-2012, 04:26 AM   #169
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I think it's pretty safe to say that bullying ruined my academic experience, and my parents not taking it seriously lead to a lot of problems in high school. It's easy to say "just don't listen to them" when you're not the one being harassed every day.

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I posted the text of this earlier. Pointing out inconsistencies in te application of certain Biblical rules or mandates is hardly extraordinary, or new, or even remarkable.
I've been told that doing that is "immature" and "rude" by the same people that told me I would be going to the underworld because I live with my significant other before marriage.
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Old 04-29-2012, 11:14 AM   #170
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I posted the text of this earlier. Pointing out inconsistencies in te application of certain Biblical rules or mandates is hardly extraordinary, or new, or even remarkable.
Biblical illiteracy and misstating the application of Old Testament laws is one thing, calling it "Bullshit" is quite another.
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Seems you enjoy feeling like a victim, and the whole "bigot card" thing.
I fail to see how hiding behind homosexuality to bash the Bible is any different than the inverse.
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Old 04-29-2012, 11:48 AM   #171
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Quote:
Originally Posted by INDY500

Biblical illiteracy and misstating the application of Old Testament laws is one thing, calling it "Bullshit" is quite another.

I think you should go back and read what he said.



[QUOTE/]

I fail to see how hiding behind homosexuality to bash the Bible is any different than the inverse.[/QUOTE]

He was bashing not the Bible but certain things in the bible that people use to justify prejudice and hate. So he was more bashing these "Christians" than the bible itself.

But if people think that religion absolves them from responsibility for their words and actions, well, they proves his point.

Gay people have to listen to far far far worse on a daily basis from Christians on a daily basis. Savage called the inconsistent application of certain parts of the bible bullshit. Said "Christians" work to destroy my rights and call the most intimate parts of our lives not just an abomination but an actual threat to civilization.

It's not even close.
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Old 04-29-2012, 12:29 PM   #172
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How hard is it to see what Savage was saying? Religious leaders, members/followers have routinely showed either an ignorance to their own holy book or lack of irony behind their statements.

Plenty of people use the "it says so in the bible" to justify their denial of a basic right towards homosexuality. Yet, it also states the following is a sin, and punishable by death:

Shellfish
Working on sabbath
Mixing of linen for clothing
Woman's virginity
Stating if a woman is raped by man that he can marry her.

How many of those in the bible do we consider worthy of executing in today's society (tho an Islamic society seem to do a very good job of keeping to their holy books word/rules)???

So to fucking cherry pick the few gay verses while pretending the other stuff doesn't relate is nothing more than bullshit.

I still believe we're a few decades away from homosexuality being the latest of the irrelevant bigoted statements from the bible.

Good for Dan for saying it
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Old 04-29-2012, 02:02 PM   #173
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Quote:
Originally Posted by INDY500 View Post
Biblical illiteracy and misstating the application of Old Testament laws is one thing, calling it "Bullshit" is quite another.


I fail to see how hiding behind homosexuality to bash the Bible is any different than the inverse.
Would you bash someone for saying slavery is wrong? I don't think you would. I'm not sure why the mere fact that it's the Bible suddenly means it's sacrosanct and should not be criticized. You used the word "bash" as if he's being unreasonable. Far from it. As Irvine said, he's not saying anything that's incorrect. The Bible has been wrong on some things, and people are inconsistent in their applications of it, especially anti-gay Christians. Nothing he said was incorrect.
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Old 04-29-2012, 02:13 PM   #174
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American conservative christianity ignores the teachings of Jesus and embraces religion because it absolves them of their hate.

So I'm not surprised that so many are completely missing savage's point.
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Old 04-29-2012, 02:28 PM   #175
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Originally Posted by INDY500 View Post
Biblical illiteracy and misstating the application of Old Testament laws is one thing, calling it "Bullshit" is quite another.


I fail to see how hiding behind homosexuality to bash the Bible is any different than the inverse.
I personally have to agree that I DO think anti-gay views are bullshit, whether they're coming from the Bible or elsewhere. Being anti-gay makes absolutely no sense, and I've yet to hear any reasonable argument as to why it's okay to be anti-gay. Especially since, again, people are willing to not follow the Bible other times when it suits their purposes or when the culture changes to the point where certain things aren't acceptable anymore (such as slavery). Maybe Savage could have made the point less bluntly, but then again, hey, you know, religious figures certainly have no problem being blunt in their messages ("you're going to hell if you do/don't do this", "x activity is a sin", "Jesus is the only way", etc., etc.). They don't give a crap if what they say is offensive to people, so why should Savage have to care, have to tiptoe around the issue? Especially if it's one that is personal to him? I can imagine if I were gay and had to hear the things that anti-gay people said day in and day out I'd probably be pretty angry after a while, too, and not really in the mood to be so polite with my thoughts anymore.

All that being said, personally, I don't care if the Bible is anti or pro-gay, I care that people are basing their entire worldview on the book no matter what it says. It's fine to look at a book and get some interesting insights and viewpoints of all sorts, and take away some messages or words that can inspire you and comfort you and such, but to have it alone be the basis for all your thinking makes no sense to me. I think Savage is mainly trying to say people should think for themselves instead of let the words of centuries ago writers rule their thoughts, more than anything.

And if people want to walk out, that is their right to do so, but at the same time...you're going to hear opinions that will offend you or that you won't agree with at some point. Instead of walking out, at least maybe hear what they have to say. You don't have to agree at all, but how will we get anywhere, how will we learn anything, if we don't hear each other out? And yes, I would say the same thing if the situation were reversed. I find the views of the Santorums of the world absolutely repugnant, but I certainly want to hear what they say, if for no other reason than to see what their arguments are so that I can see where I want to strengthen my own arguments on the issue.
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Old 04-29-2012, 03:41 PM   #176
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The sad irony of an adult anti-bullying crusader using bullying tactics on minors including foul language and directing laughter towards them is apparently overloading the common decency lobe in some of you.
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Old 04-29-2012, 04:01 PM   #177
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The rich irony of an adult anti-bullying crusader using bullying tactics on minors including foul language and directing laughter towards them is apparently overloading the common decency lobe in some of you.
Fight fire with fire, "eye for an eye" (Bible readers should appreciate that one, I'd think, they sure enjoy pulling out that mindset in regards to other issues), "treat others as you wish to be treated", perhaps?

Again, I agree that it's not the method I'd use, and I think his views would likely be taken more seriously if he toned things down. Especially since he is an adult, and they are teenagers.

However, some people suggest you won't truly know what it feels like to be mistreated and insulted and whatnot until it happens to you.
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Old 04-29-2012, 10:01 PM   #178
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However, some people suggest you won't truly know what it feels like to be mistreated and insulted and whatnot until it happens to you.
Some people don't understand regardless. There is a rare variety of people that are so emotionally tough and have high enough self esteem that insults do not bother them. I knew a girl that could handle the worst of bullying without batting an eye--because she genuinely believed she was better than everybody else anyway. Learning to take with a grain of salt the opinions of your peers is a skill that is gained with age. Most kids in grade school, and even middle school, do not have this down to a T yet. Nowadays I can ignore somebody who is "bullying" me, but when I was a kid I didn't stand a chance.

Unfortunately it seems that the people who are immune to bullying will continue to talk about how they don't see what the big deal is.
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Old 04-29-2012, 10:10 PM   #179
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As a Christian, I understand what Dan Savage was trying to say, and I more or less agree with him. As someone who treats the Bible as sacred the use of the word "bullshit" doesn't sit well with me, but I also understand that he is not a Christian and so is not bound to treat the Bible with the kind of reverence I would. Nevertheless, I am able to seperate my personal sensiblities and agree that there is much that we Christians consider irrelevant/no longer applicable in Scripture and thus our fidelity to the Scriptures on homosexuality is a more than a little suspect.
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Old 04-29-2012, 10:14 PM   #180
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The sad irony of an adult anti-bullying crusader using bullying tactics on minors including foul language and directing laughter towards them is apparently overloading the common decency lobe in some of you.
The irony wasn't lost on me. But that's a completely different question from whether Savage can be fairly made a reflection on "those preaching civility, tolerance, diversity, inclusiveness and all that" in general (he can't) or whether he's "a vicious, hateful religious bigot" (Savage was raised in a strict Catholic family and attended seminary-prep highschool, which creates some problems for that characterization--assuming you meant anti-religious bigot).

I do think whoever thought Savage would make a great keynote speaker for a highschool journalism conference showed some pretty questionable judgment. His hallmark as a writer (he's primarily known as a sex advice columnist and blogger on LGBTQ issues, particularly antigay discrimination) is his shock-jockish style--fans read him partly to see how outrageously crude or acidly skewering he'll manage to be today, whether he's talking about NOM or S&M etiquette. As with other public figures of similar persona, that doesn't make him a through-and-through asshole or a guy without a heart, but it does make him an eyebrow-raising choice for a venue like that, regardless of his status as co-creator of the It Gets Better project.
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