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Old 03-09-2012, 05:01 PM   #151
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HBK had sent me a detailed message regarding the boss situation. Sounds like she was a giant bitch
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Old 03-09-2012, 05:08 PM   #152
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well, i suppose that's what HR is for?
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Old 03-09-2012, 05:16 PM   #153
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HBK had sent me a detailed message regarding the boss situation. Sounds like she was a giant bitch
go sit in the corner
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Old 03-27-2012, 12:35 PM   #154
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Bully is going to be released Friday without a rating. Apparently most theaters treat unrated movies just like NC 17.
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Old 04-02-2012, 06:20 PM   #155
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Slate's Emily Bazelon had generally good things to say about the movie, but was disturbed by what she found to be its serious oversimplification of the link between bullying and suicide:
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At the heart of the documentary are the deaths of two boys, 11-year-old Ty Smalley and 17-year-old Tyler Long. Hirsch dwells on the Long narrative, in a drawn-out opening sequence narrated by Long’s father and in several other painful scenes. We see home video of Tyler growing up in Murray County, GA. We see his parents at his gravesite. We hear that bullying—and bullying alone—caused his death. We see a town hall meeting at which Tyler’s mother blasts the police officer stationed at his school, Murray County High, for failing to help her son.

What we don’t see is Tyler’s mental health history. Here’s some of what’s missing. Tyler, who died when he was a junior, was diagnosed with ADHD, bipolar disorder, and Asperger’s (autism with a normal to high IQ) in sixth grade.
Five weeks before his death, Tyler’s father found him in his room “messing” with belts and asked his son if he was contemplating suicide. Tyler said no, and his parents believed him. About two weeks later, however, on Sept. 25, 2009, the Longs took Tyler to see a psychologist, at least in part because he wanted to go. Tyler’s parents, Tina and David, didn’t tell the psychologist about their suicide concerns or report that their son was being mistreated in school, even though the psychologist asked about this specifically. (The Longs also didn’t tell the school that Tyler might be suicidal, or that he’d gone for counseling.) The Longs scheduled a follow-up appointment with the psychologist for Tyler on Oct. 12, five days before Tyler's death. Tyler didn’t show up. The reason, his mother said later, was that he had totaled his car. A couple of other facts that could be relevant to Tyler’s mental health state: He had a girlfriend in fall 2009 who broke up with him. Also in September, his parents pulled him from all of his honors and AP classes, where he had high marks, to make sure he could keep up his grades and remain eligible for Georgia’s Hope Scholarship, which helps pay for college at in-state universities.

These facts all come from a brief filed by the Murray County school district in response to a lawsuit filed by Long’s family, which blames school officials for Tyler’s death and demands $1.7 million in damages. The family’s brief in response doesn’t dispute these facts, saying instead that they are “irrelevant and immaterial.”
You will learn none of this from watching Bully.

I asked Hirsch why he didn’t mention Tyler’s diagnoses. “I really felt that by not disclosing it, we wouldn’t allow the audience to prejudge,” he said. “It was a decision we thought about a lot. Ultimately, we thought the film would be more powerful without it.”

To Ann Haas, a senior project specialist for the American Foundation for Suicide Prevention, this was a serious error. When I played Bully for Haas, she recoiled in horror, and I don’t use the word lightly. “To leave Tyler’s mental health problems out of the film is an egregious omission,” she said. “It is really misinformation. The filmmakers’ had the opportunity to present bullying as a trigger, as one factor that played a role in a young person’s suicide. But to draw a direct line without referencing anything else—I’m appalled, honestly. That is hugely, hugely unfortunate.” Haas feels strongly about this for a few reasons. First, research shows a strong link between Asperger’s and suicide and a link between bipolar disorder and suicide as well. This means these facts about Tyler are important to understanding his decision to take his life. There’s more, too. From Haas’ point of view, by presenting such an incomplete version of the facts, Hirsch has created a real risk of suicide contagion—the documented phenomenon of people mimicking suicidal behavior in light of media representations. “I worry terribly about the contagion effect,” Haas said. “One message of this move is: ‘Bullying kills’—as if it’s a normal response to kill yourself, when of course most people who are bullied don’t do that. Young people who feel bullied could harken back to the movie, and it could be a powerful draw to suicide for them. If Tyler had been accurately portrayed as a kid with mental health challenges that were very hard for him to manage, he wouldn’t seem so attractive. We might feel sympathy for him, but he wouldn’t have the emotional pull of a character who is being romanticized. When you turn a real person, who had a very painful, distressing life, into a kind of fairytale character, that’s something young people are much more likely to identify with. And identification is at the heart of contagion.”

There’s another omission in the film that dismayed Haas. The police report on Tyler’s death made public the suicide note he left. It reads:
Dear Family,

If you are reading this I am DEAD. I don’t want to live any
longer with this burden I have. I don’t have a supporting
family or friends for that matter. You think I am
worthless and pathetic. All I wanted was acceptance
and kindness, but no I didn’t get love. Maybe I’ll see you
in the afterlife or not. I want to end this pain I have and to
live in eternal hapiness [sic]. I hate myself because I don’t
make everyone happy. Tr. [younger brother] I love you because we share a
battle of disabilities. Te., [younger sister] You will be great someday. Tina,
Your personality is what helped me. David, I looked up to
you for all my life and I love you the most. This World will
be a better place without me.

Sincerely,
Tyler Lee Long
1992-2009
The suicide note has seemingly nothing to do with bullying. By now, you must be wondering: What bullying did Tyler Long experience? Honestly, after watching the movie and reading all of the legal papers filed by Tyler’s family and his school, I’m not sure. In the film, David Long says that kids banged Tyler’s head into a school locker a day or two before his death. No one has said who those kids are supposed to be. Murray County High has 42 video cameras installed throughout the school and grounds. They cover the hallway where Tyler’s locker was. The police looked at the tape on the relevant days and saw no one pushing Tyler’s head into a locker or doing anything else to him. This allegation also disappeared from the family’s lawsuit after it was challenged by the school. In the movie and in the suit, Tyler’s family says that he was bullied daily. Nine students quoted in the Longs’ brief say things like “students spit in his food in the cafeteria,” and “he was pushed in the back of his head in the cafeteria and would yell ‘leave me alone’ and then throw his plate away and leave,” and “they’d call him retarded, slow, faggot,” and “people would pull his pants down in the bathroom and throw stuff at him.”

It’s very hard to tell, but it doesn’t seem that these accusations and others like them are about Tyler’s junior year. They seem to be about middle school and the first year and a half of high school. In ninth grade, Tyler had real trouble in school with other kids, his mother complained, and school staff tried to help him. In 10th grade, there was an incident in which Tyler called a girl a “pregnant bitch” and was pushed down the stairs by her boyfriend. The boy and the girl received five-day in-school suspensions for bullying Tyler, and the Longs asked prosecutors to press criminal charges. After that, Tyler told a teacher a student kicked him in hallway, but he didn’t want it reported because it was just horseplay. The teacher reported it anyway, and the student got an in-school suspension for three days. Also, in Spanish class in December 2008, a teacher saw a student irritating Tyler, and in discussing the incident afterward with his counselor, Tyler said he was picked on daily but was “used to it.” When she asked him to name the perpetrators, however, he didn’t. That’s the end of the written record of bullying, with one possible exception. In the days before his death, the Longs say Tyler experienced “egregious bullying” in his guitar class. The teacher saw some “jawing,” but nothing else. A friend of Tyler’s who saw what happened said that another student pretended to take Tyler’s guitar away, then cut it out when told to stop, and that Tyler wasn’t upset afterward.

Maybe there is more to the bullying than that—maybe kids were mean and unfriendly in Tyler’s junior year, and he kept this buried inside, or he told his family and they didn’t report it to the school. But the allegations the nine students make in the lawsuit are for the most part vague and unspecific. Given the contested facts in the lawsuit, when I spoke to Hirsch over the phone, I asked him whether he’d tried to talk to anyone from the Murray County schools. At first he said yes, then he said he wasn’t sure, then noted that the school district was invited to a town hall meeting that’s shown in the film, but school officials declined to come. “By not attending, they made a very clear statement,” Hirsch said. A minute or two later, the phone went dead, and Hirsch said he’d call me back. He didn’t. Instead, he sent me a statement days later saying, “Our additional attempts to engage school officials in person were declined.” The lawyer for the Murray County schools says that no one in the district remembers hearing from Hirsch or his crew.

Hirsch also told me, “I presented the parent’s perspective. That was my story.” But is that enough? On television, Tina Long has said of the school district officials she blames for failing to help Tyler, “I think they killed my son, I think they led him to do what he did.” This is a message you could take from the movie, too: The only thing that matters in explaining Tyler’s death is that school officials failed to prevent bullies from tormenting him.

I don’t want to excuse kids who were cruel to Tyler, or the problems he had in school. And I can understand a family’s desire to assign blame for a child’s awful death. And believe me, I know that by describing the other problems Tyler was facing, I will be accused of blaming the victim. But given the larger set of facts about the death of Tyler Long, does Bully portray it responsibly? There are real people on the receiving end of these blame campaigns, campaigns that certain members of the media are all too eager to embrace. Reviews of the movie thus far have assumed that Hirsch’s version of the story is complete and true, with no mentions of the ongoing court battle. Just as important, the stated mission of this movie is to portray the problem of bullying honestly and accurately. By taking the parents’ side so completely, and leaving out all the information that doesn’t fit his narrative, Hirsch oversimplifies and distorts. His film is supposed to be a teaching tool, yet it offers some serious misimpressions about the connection between bullying and suicide, misimpressions that could have real effects on young viewers.
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Old 04-02-2012, 08:14 PM   #156
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Rather ridiculous that Hunger Games, with teenagers killing each other, gets a PG 13 and Bully is unrated because of language. Obviously Hunger Games is a book and they're trying to convey the book in an authentic way. But I think the violence was probably made just graphic enough to get a PG 13 rather than a PG, and they couldn't have an R because of the target audience. Just points out that the ratings system is a joke, especially in this situation. Bullying is a real life situation that teens face every day - don't think they'll be in districts playing hunger games any time soon.
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Old 04-02-2012, 10:33 PM   #157
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FWIW, I read a LOT of nasty, violent, disturbing books (all those rec. reading medical thrillers and murder mystery crap) and the last part of Hunger Games was one of the most gratuitously violent things I've ever read. I keep wondering how the heck they're going to stay true to the story there...the first one was already far less brutal than the book (most of the stuff was there, but not portrayed in the detail and prolonged suffering as in the book).

Anyway, I'd like to see this Bully film but will wait for the second-run cheap theater or when it's released to rent.
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Old 04-02-2012, 11:07 PM   #158
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Just points out that the ratings system is a joke
Have you seen This Film is Not Yet Rated? You're right. That system is far beyond a joke
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Old 04-03-2012, 12:37 AM   #159
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A little annoying that Harvey Weinstein is basically using this movie to gain ground in the debate over the ratings system, especially considering the fact that the movie takes a good opportunity and squanders it, based on what I've read.
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Old 04-03-2012, 10:37 AM   #160
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Have you seen This Film is Not Yet Rated? You're right. That system is far beyond a joke
YES. It was stunning in its appallingness.
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Old 04-28-2012, 02:33 PM   #161
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Students Walk Out on Dan Savage | CitizenLink

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]A group of high school journalism students attending a conference called “Journalism on the Edge” in Seattle over the weekend felt they were pushed over the edge by syndicated sex advice columnist Dan Savage.

Savage, the creator of the two-year-old It Gets Better Project, which encourages teens struggling with same-sex attractions to embrace homosexuality, was invited to give a keynote address last Friday at the JEA/NSPA National High School Journalism Convention.

Students were expecting him to talk about bullying. But they also got an earful about birth control, sex, and Savage’s opinions on the Bible.

A 17-year-old from California who was attending with half a dozen other students from her high school yearbook staff, was one of several students to walk out in the middle of Savage’s speech.

“The first thing he told the audience was, ‘I hope you’re all using birth control!’ ” she recalled. Then “he said there are people using the Bible as an excuse for gay bullying, because it says in Leviticus and Romans that being gay is wrong. Right after that, he said we can ignore all the ‘B.S.’ in the Bible.

“I was thinking, ‘This is not going a good direction at all,’ Then he started going off about the Bible. He said somehow the Bible was pro-slavery. I’m really shy. I’m not really someone to, like, stir up anything. But all of a sudden I just blurted out, ‘That’s bull!’ ”

As she and several other students walked out of the auditorium, Savage noticed them leaving and called them “pansies.”
It get's better? Not like this.

It would be really nice if those preaching civility, tolerance, diversity, inclusiveness and all that were a tad better at practicing what they preach.

What a creep.
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Old 04-28-2012, 03:06 PM   #162
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Yep. It's the gays who are the real bullies. Thanks for pointing that out. Always remember that it's American Christians who are always the real victims.

Further, a phrase like "embrace homosexuality" reeks of FRC and NOM type language, so let's wait for actual news organizations to report on this before we put ourselves up on crosses.

It smells like a plant to me.
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Old 04-28-2012, 03:15 PM   #163
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It would be really nice if those preaching civility, tolerance, diversity, inclusiveness and all that were a tad better at practicing what they preach.
True, this hypocrisy is not exclusive to Christians.
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Old 04-28-2012, 05:12 PM   #164
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as i suspected, the "wow, Dan Savage is SUCH a bully" is wrong.

regard what Savage actually said:

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The Bible. We'll just talk about the Bible for a second. People often point out that they can't help it -- they can't help with the anti-gay bullying, because it says right there in Leviticus, it says right there in Timothy, it says right there in Romans, that being gay is wrong.

We can learn to ignore the bulls**t in the Bible about gay people. The same way, the same way we have learned to ignore the bulls**t in the Bible about shellfish, about slavery, about dinner, about farming, about menstruation, about virginity, about masturbation. We ignore bulls**t in the Bible about all sorts of things. The Bible is a radically pro-slavery document. Slave owners waved Bibles over their heads during the Civil War and justified it. The shortest book in the New Testament is a letter from Paul to a Christian slave owner about owning his Christian slave. And Paul doesn't say "Christians don't own people." Paul talks about how Christians own people.

We ignore what the Bible says about slavery, because the Bible got slavery wrong. Tim -- uh, Sam Harris, in A Letter To A Christian Nation, points out that the Bible got the easiest moral question that humanity has ever faced wrong. Slavery. What're the odds that the Bible got something as complicated as human sexuality wrong? One hundred percent.

The Bible says that if your daughter's not a virgin on her wedding night -- if a woman isn't a virgin on her wedding night, she shall be dragged to her father's doorstep and stoned to death. Callista Gingrich lives. And there is no effort to amend state constitutions to make it legal to stone women to death on their wedding night if they're not virgins. At least not yet. We don't know where the GOP is going these days.

People are dying because people can't clear this one last hurdle. They can't get past this one last thing in the Bible about homosexuality.

Um, one other thing I wanna talk about is -- [chuckles] -- so, you can tell the Bible guys in the hall that they can come back now, because I'm done beating up the Bible. It's funny, as someone who's on the receiving end of beatings that are justified by the Bible, how pansy-assed some people react when you push back.

I apologize if I hurt anyone's feelings. But. I have a right to defend myself. And to point out the hypocrisy of people who justify anti-gay bigotry by pointing to the Bible, and insisting we must live by the code of Leviticus on this one issue and no other.

here's a far less biased account of the event than the one by the right wing CitizenLink, even though it's from a right wing British tabloid:

Quote:
His comments about the relationship between anti-gay bullying and the bible sparked a walkout of Christian teens at the National High School Journalist Conference in Seattle.
Mr Savage called the defectors 'pansy-assed' and would not back down from his comments.

'I thought this would be about anti-bullying,' Rick Tuttle, the journalism adviser for Sutter Union High School in California, told Fox News. 'It turned into a pointed attack on Christian beliefs.' Mr Savage's keynote address was presented in a large lecture hall for thousands of people. A video of the lecture shows students beginning to walk out after Mr Savage started talking about the 'bullsh*t in the bible about gay people.'

'People often say that they can’t help with the anti-gay bullying acts because it says right there in Leviticus, it says right there in Timothy, it says right there in Romans, that being gay is wrong,' Mr Savage said. 'We can learn to ignore the bullsh*t in the Bible and what it says about gay people.' He compared dogmatic acceptance of anti-gay teachings equivalent to adhering to verses about slavery and eating shellfish, two issues that have been reinterpreted in modern day.

Many people in the audience met his statements with applause, but some Christians did not appreciate Mr Savage's comparison and walked out.

'It became hostile,' he said. 'It felt hostile as we were sitting in the audience – especially towards Christians who espouse beliefs that he was literally taking on.'

Mr Savage recognized that his ideas were not going over well with the audience and addressed their concerns head on.

'The bible guys in the hall can come back now because I'm done beating up the bible,' he said.

'It's funny, as someone who's on the receiving end of beatings that are justified by the bible, how pansy-assed some people react when you push back.'

Mr Savage is renowned for his outspoken opinions on sexuality and anti-bullying.

'I apologize if I hurt anyone's feelings...but I have a right to defend myself,' he said.
The executive director of the National Scholastic Press Association that sponsored the conference also defended Mr Savage.

'We appreciate the level of thoughtfulness and deliberation regarding Dan Savage’s keynote address,' the NSPA wrote to Fox News.

'Some audience members who felt hurt by his words and tone decided to leave in the middle of his speech, and to this, we want to make our point very clear: While as a journalist it’s important to be able to listen to speech that offends you, these students and advisers had simply reached their tolerance level for what they were willing to hear.'

Read more: It Gets Worse: Anti-Bullying speaker Dan Savage blasts Christian teens for ditching lecture | Mail Online


so, firstly, and as you've pointed out in here INDY when you're dispensing advice to other would-be journalists, sometimes we have to listen to things we don't necessarily agree with. Savage wasn't addressing a captive high school audience. he wasn't in anyone's classroom. i don't see why Christians are demanding special rights to never have to hear things they disagree with, and they special right to have their own prejudices become law or else it's discrimination against them.

that said, i think it was a mistake to use profanity, but what he said was absolutely true. there's a pick-and-choose attitude when it comes to Biblical "laws" and the choice to adhere to some and not others is absolutely indicative of nothing more than pure prejudice.

all that said, i think Savage would have been better off with a more inclusive message -- these were teenagers, and even religious teenagers are supportive of SSM and gay people in general. the generational divide is enormous on this issue, and while everything he said is correct, this probably wasn't the best time and place for it. much better to save this stuff -- and make no mistake, Savage is smart and incisive -- for the Maggie Gallaghers and Tony Perkins and the hate groups they lead.

the things they routinely say on any cable news station on any given Tuesday is miles and miles beyond anything Savage said here.
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Old 04-28-2012, 06:27 PM   #165
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It would be really nice if those preaching civility, tolerance, diversity, inclusiveness and all that were a tad better at practicing what they preach.
This is the kind of thing people looking for excuses to avoid relating to gay people as equals say. Ditto for "embracing homosexuality," as if coming out were a self-gratifying means of spurning and offending people.

For someone who enjoys Rush Limbaugh and Ted Nugent, you seem to have a pretty low tolerance for gay public figures with a rep for being provocative and fiery. I find Savage's bitterness far easier to understand (though I don't much care for him), but in any case he's just one person.
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