Bullying - What Can Be Done?

The friendliest place on the web for anyone that follows U2.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
So, with that last sentence, are we insisting that the slave trade was all part of God's Plan to bring black people to America and (better) to Jesus?
 
So, with that last sentence, are we insisting that the slave trade was all part of God's Plan to bring black people to America and (better) to Jesus?

Actually, 60% of Christians live in developing countries. If FYM is any indicator African and Asian Christians will soon see the need to send missionaries to spread the Gospel to us.
 
If FYM is any indicator African and Asian Christians will soon see the need to send missionaries to spread the Gospel to us.

I dunno, the Christians in this country sure seem to be doing a fine enough job on their own.

(And what's the percentage of Christians in this country at large? Still at 80 some percent? Yeah. I can see where you're so concerned about the horrible lack of Christianity.)
 
And the missionaries have done a bang up job screwing up said developing countries

This is a tricky/controversial subject, but I know a lot of missionaries. Many go over to Africa (or other continents) with the intention of doing good, but often it's misguided. I just know that one of the major missionary sponsors (PM me if you want the actual name of it) was having people go over to indoctrinate orphans into Christianity. They weren't feeding poor people, building homes, or anything of the sort. You donated money to pay for Christians to go over there, stay in a nice house with high speed internet and air conditioning, and teach Sunday school to an orphanage for six months.

I am not saying all missionaries do this sort of thing. I know several people that did fantastic work over in Africa (almost all of them say they'd love to go back, too). But this does happen, and often it hurts the countries far more than it helps them.

Uganda does not need more Christianity. What it needs is food, shelter, better medicine, and most importantly education. It already has Christianity, and it's illegal to be homosexual over there (you're actually allowed to kill a person just because they admit to being homosexual, and the authorities will do nothing). It's terrifying over there.
 
Uganda does not need more Christianity. What it needs is food, shelter, better medicine, and most importantly education.

This.

it's illegal to be homosexual over there (you're actually allowed to kill a person just because they admit to being homosexual, and the authorities will do nothing). It's terrifying over there.

I'd heard about that whole disturbing law, yes. Truly frightening stuff.

And people wonder why some have issues with and refuse to be part of organized religions sometimes.
 
What Southerners did in the Civil War to justify their view of slavery is exactly, exactly, what Dan Savage does when he misapplies his biblical references to slavery.

And this sums up everything you missed about, or didn't care to understand about Savage's point.
 
Many go over to Africa (or other continents) with the intention of doing good, but often it's misguided.

I can get behind this. I've always thought, regardless of my personal views on religion, that it only works on an individual or family level. I'm sure your friends genuinely think they're doing something good, but there's something insidious about the whole missionary thing.

Uganda does not need more Christianity. What it needs is food, shelter, better medicine, and most importantly education. It already has Christianity, and it's illegal to be homosexual over there (you're actually allowed to kill a person just because they admit to being homosexual, and the authorities will do nothing). It's terrifying over there.

And this. Nicely said. I didn't get the chance to see it, but my girlfriend went to see a great documentary last week called Call Me Kuchu about that very thing. She said she was crying in the theatre, so I'm looking forward to seeing it sooner than later
 
No one really did it?

Come on! In Seattle alone, I saw FOUR posters in one neighborhood on the way to work after the Kony Poster Extravaganza took place!

One was even written in ballpoint pen, with a frowny-face drawn on it. That sign alone saved 0.67 children, I'm sure.
 
As to my main point, anyone?
Well, yeah. When it comes to civil rights, the whole "Take it slow, baby steps" argument is much more frustrating than your run-of-the-mill political issue. The reason? Because this isn't an issue where there are legitimate arguments on both sides. That's how all civil rights issues are and have been in the past.

Until you present actual "ramifications" that you keep vaguely alluding to, I have no idea what you're trying to get across. It's pretty amazing, considering we've been having this argument for several years on this forum: I have no idea why you are against same-sex marriage. I've read most of your posts on the topic and still haven't had a takeaway from them.

This is not meant as a criticism, either. I really would like to have you get more into the detail as to what you mean with these "ramifications." I hope we're on the cusp of a better discussion on the issue, as opposed to just another toe dipped in the pool. Otherwise, I'll just have to believe you simply fear change, because that's what it seems like when you simply say "ramifications." To me, it sounds like it's just a fear of the unknown. Yeah, nothing bad has happened in Massachusetts yet, but on a national level what if (BLANK) happens? I don't even know what the blank could be.
 
What Southerners did in the Civil War to justify their view of slavery is exactly, exactly, what Dan Savage does when he misapplies his biblical references to slavery.
I understand the argument--though it's just an argument, not an indisputable fact--that one implication of the letter to Philemon is that Christians should not own Christians. That's quite different from asserting that people may not own people, period.

In 17th-century Virginia there were cases of newly baptized slaves successfully suing for their freedom. The result was that in 1667 the colony's House of Burgesses (America's first legislature) passed a law specifying that baptism was not grounds for manumission, with other colonies soon following suit. Of course, if one is willing to believe in the first place that enslaving people is okay if your purpose is to share Christ with them, it's not much of a leap from there to convincing yourself that retaining them post-Christianization is okay so long as you "...provide your slaves with what is right and fair..." (as interpreted by the slaveholder).

I think it's a pretty weaselly argument to make that the New Testament doesn't condone slavery. The comparison to abolitionist Philadephia Convention delegates doesn't work for me--they may not have had the numbers to end slavery, but they made their personal moral objections to the institution explicit and crystal-clear.
Not slaves but certainly the descendents of Western slaves. And you either understand what that means or you don't care to.
Actually, I would like to understand what you mean here but don't. Present-day African-Americans are able to partake in the generally high standard of living in this country insofar as their fundamental human rights have (finally) been acknowledged by its laws. And that outcome is to be credited to slavery how?
 
Last edited:
As for the slaves...

Think about it, something "being the norm" never stopped Christians from putting a taboo on it. They only put taboos on what they considered to be sinful and bad, and tried to live "just and righteous" lives... with slaves.

No one really did it?

Come on! In Seattle alone, I saw FOUR posters in one neighborhood on the way to work after the Kony Poster Extravaganza took place!

One was even written in ballpoint pen, with a frowny-face drawn on it. That sign alone saved 0.67 children, I'm sure.

There were a bunch near cross-roads in Bellevue, if you know where that is. It was ridiculous. Also had some guy raising awareness about Kony outside of Target. :hmm: Seattlites, man.
 
Having been a missionary for eleven years, I take exception to the broad brush missionaries are being painted with. My guess is most of you have very little real, personal experience with actual missionaries.

I get the criticisms--I read (and loved) The Posionwood Bible--but at the same time, that kind of missionary, and the kind you all are talking about has nothing to do with most of the missionaries I know. I would hope it has nothing to do with me or the work I did either.
 
Having been a missionary for eleven years, I take exception to the broad brush missionaries are being painted with. My guess is most of you have very little real, personal experience with actual missionaries.

I get the criticisms--I read (and loved) The Posionwood Bible--but at the same time, that kind of missionary, and the kind you all are talking about has nothing to do with most of the missionaries I know. I would hope it has nothing to do with me or the work I did either.

Nobody's painting missionaries with a broad brush, we're simply stating that there are issues with certain missionaries and sponsor companies. I understand that the missionaries you know have nothing to do with that, same with several great missionaries I know. But there is a problem and I think it's been ignored for far too long.
 
Back
Top Bottom