Brexit

The friendliest place on the web for anyone that follows U2.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
Question: I know that the UK has a fairly new Supreme Court. Is this the sort of issue that they may eventually intervene in?

I ask because it seems like some people think withdrawing will require a parliamentary vote, while others think that this can be done unilaterally by the PM. I ask because even if Boris Johnson wins the Tory leadership contest and the government isn't dissolved, it sounds like he might have a hard time keeping the Tories together enough to actually get parliament to approve activating Article 50. If he can do it unilaterally, that's another story. So I have to wonder if there will be some sort of constitutional crisis if he tries to activate Article 50 unilaterally.


Sent from my iPhone using U2 Interference

digitize, i honestly can't say for sure - i haven't got the confidence to say 100% based on my own knowledge as it was completely new to me also (i am a political rather than a legal beast and had just assumed the referendum would be respected - Cameron had said this all along and had said Art 50 would be triggered immediately, and i didn't know all the legal ins and outs in that respect so was taken aback when i heard about the need to put it to parliament), but what i've been told is any attempt to trigger Article 50 without parliamentary backing could be considered unconstitutional and challenged in the courts... now, once Art 50 has been triggered it's meant to be irreversible, but as it's meant to be done in accordance with national constitutional obligations maybe, if ruled not to have been done so, it could be revoked - but it has never been tested and it is all soooo unclear, not to mention the fact that the politicians are still acting as though Brexit is all going ahead and Cameron/Boris have made no mention of the obligation for a parliamentary vote (although this has been mentioned by the MP David Lammy i believe)

i'm checking info both sides of the Channel and French (reputable) press is reporting it in the same way, i.e., a constitutional nightmare to even invoke the exit clause due to the need for a parliamentary vote...

so i cannot understand why, other than in the Guardian today, it's getting very little coverage... many people basically seem to be rolling over and accepting a Brexit as an inevitability, but i refuse to give up hope just yet...

also, i don't trust Boris (or any of them actually) an inch! he is saying he doesn't want to be hasty, and is in no rush to invoke the exit clause (that would be suicidal anyway, as fuck all could get negotiated in the 2-year time frame), so he is playing for time... not to mention retracting all his promises... he even said today he wants to "intensify European relations", the guy is ridiculous and should be publicly discredited - i cannot believe he might actually be a leadership prospect!!
 
Last edited:
The media is really bugging me on this one. Calling for another referendum because some people are stupid, or because old people have voted the wrong way and they die soon anyways, or even an elected MP tweeting that the referendum is non-binding. Jesus fucking christ people, it's called a democracy. You can't demand a rerun because you don't like the result. That's not how it works.

Instead of wasting time on this, it would be much more beneficial to stop squabbling and start thinking about how to make the best out of this shitty situation and hopefully negotiate terms similar to what Switzerland or Norway has.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
I have to say it's kind of nice watching lying, grandstanding conservatives having to live with the bullshit they promulgate. They always seem to forget that at some point, someone's going to call their bluff. They won't get bailed out every time.
 
The media is really bugging me on this one. Calling for another referendum because some people are stupid, or because old people have voted the wrong way and they die soon anyways, or even an elected MP tweeting that the referendum is non-binding. Jesus fucking christ people, it's called a democracy. You can't demand a rerun because you don't like the result. That's not how it works.

Instead of wasting time on this, it would be much more beneficial to stop squabbling and start thinking about how to make the best out of this shitty situation and hopefully negotiate terms similar to what Switzerland or Norway has.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

no, that's not the problem - the problem is the narrow win - 3.98% is not sufficient to be democratic! in the 1975 referendum to join the EEC, there was a 34% majority (67/33), so a huuuuge difference

if there had been a similar outcome, it would be much clearer and much more democratic

the Leave campaign also made it very clear during the campaign that if there was a narrow win for Remain, they would demand a second referendum

a 3.98% majority out of a 72% turn-out just isn't high enough to demand such far-reaching changes to the status quo

even in government, with proportional representation, power is proportional to the number of votes - a small majority gets a small majority of seats or bargaining power - that's how our democracy works
 
Last edited:
I have to say it's kind of nice watching lying, grandstanding conservatives having to live with the bullshit they promulgate. They always seem to forget that at some point, someone's going to call their bluff. They won't get bailed out every time.
It's also nice seeing a major country more fucked up politically than we are.

Nice and frightening. But nice.
 
The media is really bugging me on this one. Calling for another referendum because some people are stupid, or because old people have voted the wrong way and they die soon anyways, or even an elected MP tweeting that the referendum is non-binding. Jesus fucking christ people, it's called a democracy. You can't demand a rerun because you don't like the result. That's not how it works.

Instead of wasting time on this, it would be much more beneficial to stop squabbling and start thinking about how to make the best out of this shitty situation and hopefully negotiate terms similar to what Switzerland or Norway has.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
That's bullshit. If the result of the vote and also the revelation of all the populist lies makes the public opinion change, then it's not democratic to just carry out whatever the result was.
 
no, that's not the problem - the problem is the narrow win - 3.98% is not sufficient to be democratic! in the 1975 referendum to join the EEC, there was a 34% majority (67/33), so a huuuuge difference


Yeah but where do you draw the line? Is 5% enough? 10%? If you have a majority vote, then that's what it is. Otherwise we can just get rid of refendums all together



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
That's bullshit. If the result of the vote and also the revelation of all the populist lies makes the public opinion change, then it's not democratic to just carry out whatever the result was.


So if Trump wins, we're also going to ignore the election result? And demand a new election where nobody is allowed to lie?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
That's bullshit. If the result of the vote and also the revelation of all the populist lies makes the public opinion change, then it's not democratic to just carry out whatever the result was.


I agree. This is why I support recalling all presidents the minute their approval ratings dip below 50. The people have re-spoken.


Sent from my iPhone using U2 Interference
 
Looks like team England is having some regrexit feels. They didn't know Iceland could win and now they want a do over but sadly they've already chosen to Brexit the euro.
 
or even an elected MP tweeting that the referendum is non-binding.

What's the problem with this? This referendum isn't binding.

It would be a brave parliament that defies a majority - even a small one - but it can.
 
All this underscores the superiority of representational democracy.

Your average citizen is not -- nor should be expected to be -- informed enough to cast a meaningful vote on complex policy. We have legislatures for a reason, courts for a reason. Our vote gives us a stake in the system, and a tool to use to enforce accountability and responsibility in our representatives.

Could you imagine putting the TPP up for a popular vote?
 
I wasn't aware that the referendum isn't binding - that puts an interesting spin on all this. I would hope that Parliament, if they are the ones to make the final call, lets things settle down a little bit before deciding whether to stay or leave. Acting in the midst of the immediate economic aftershock, when things are bound to look especially bad, would probably not be wise.
 
All this underscores the superiority of representational democracy.

Your average citizen is not -- nor should be expected to be -- informed enough to cast a meaningful vote on complex policy. We have legislatures for a reason, courts for a reason. Our vote gives us a stake in the system, and a tool to use to enforce accountability and responsibility in our representatives.

Could you imagine putting the TPP up for a popular vote?
The TPP
Isn't that dead. Hillary now says she is against it and so has Trump.
 
that was a trap! a trap!

Correct that was 72% turnout
and 52-48 and people are saying it really should not count.

not enough of a win margin and not everybody voted


the numbers I posted are the 2012 Presidential election, should that have been a do over, because of the low turn out or small margin?
 
Last edited:
I don't believe people in England did not know what they were voting for,
this election was huge news 24/7 for weeks. As for the claims, they were exaggerated on both sides, that is what happens in politics. The leave vote was mostly driven by sovereignty. I am very skeptical of all these people saying they voted 'leave' but didn't really want it. Seems like something a sore loser that voted 'remain' could easily make up to try discredit the leave win.
 
I'm mildly agreeing with deep here...

I don't think "regrexit" is a real thing. Just some bull shit the media made up to piss you off. Interview a few folks who say they regret it and paint this picture of how suddenly a new vote must be done (as though no conditions would change except for regretful voters switching sides).
 
All this underscores the superiority of representational democracy.

I agree, all the referendum has managed to achieve is to divide the voters in the UK, divide the countries within the UK, cause immense political instability and bring forward blatant racism.
Politicians should have taken their responsibility and decided the best way forward based on their best insights not by playing a game of 'who plays with the emotions of the electorate best'.


I don't believe people in England did not know what they were voting for,
this election was huge news 24/7 for weeks. As for the claims, they were exaggerated on both sides, that is what happens in politics.
Well, to be honest, only one side exaggerated their claims - camp Stay.

Camp Leave followed the Donald Trump handbook of politics by telling lies and cover them up with more lies (preferably within a catchphrase) and add a smidgen of xenophobia.
 
Yeah but where do you draw the line? Is 5% enough? 10%? If you have a majority vote, then that's what it is. Otherwise we can just get rid of refendums all together



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

in Britain, referenda are not normally binding - sovereignty lies with parliament
 
So if Trump wins, we're also going to ignore the election result? And demand a new election where nobody is allowed to lie?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

it depends on the constitution - in Britain there isn't a written constitution - we're an usual case apparently LOL
 
All this underscores the superiority of representational democracy.

Your average citizen is not -- nor should be expected to be -- informed enough to cast a meaningful vote on complex policy. We have legislatures for a reason, courts for a reason. Our vote gives us a stake in the system, and a tool to use to enforce accountability and responsibility in our representatives.

Could you imagine putting the TPP up for a popular vote?

Irvine, you're always the voice of reason round here :heart: :hug:
 
Back
Top Bottom