Brexit

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As a Belgian I'm probably programmed to love the EU. So this makes me sad. I wager they'll miss us more than we'll miss them.

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Oregoropa said:
I live near Wilkes-Barre, PA. Luzerne County is a historically bellwether county for the state in presidential elections. Trump is currently 51-34 in Luzerne.


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well, that settles it then. better start sending backhoes to the mexican border.
 
How on earth are British Labour managing to turn an event that should be a circular firing squad for the Tories into an excuse for their own infighting. Good grief.
 
Absolutely lost it at Hilary Benn getting sacked. What an embarrassing fool, his father would be ashamed of him.
 
this is unprecedented... right now it's unclear as to whether a Brexit will actually go ahead as the executive power has to invoke Article 50 - what NO ONE mentioned in the run-up to the referendum was the fact that Article 50 is invoked according to the EU Member State's own constitutional requirements, which, in Britain, apparently means it has to be passed as an act of parliament - i.e., the Head of State (no clue who this will actually be as no-one seems keen to pick up that poisoned chalice, maybe unless Corbyn gets elected as PM) cannot legally invoke Article 50 unless parliament agrees... Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales may also have a veto on this as it involves their EU rights... so not looking as clear cut as an out vote - maybe there is a glimmer of hope that Britain will remain in the EU, and, if so, all this will have been a right royal epic global storm in a fucking tea cup

(but no one reaaaally knows for sure)
 
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Axver said:
How on earth are British Labour managing to turn an event that should be a circular firing squad for the Tories into an excuse for their own infighting. Good grief.
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it's no surprise at all - Labour are a mess - when swathes of the population who were traditionally Labour voters veer to the far right due to massive disconnect, then there is a major problem

plus Corbyn has been "MIA" in this whole debacle
 
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Axver said:
How on earth are British Labour managing to turn an event that should be a circular firing squad for the Tories into an excuse for their own infighting. Good grief.
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It was only a matter of (short) time until Corbyn got the boot, so this really isn't surprising.


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I think a new PM will take power and follow the will of the people. It was politics that put England in so it seems fitting that politics can take them out. Norway is out, Switzerland too. I do realize England is an outsized member of the 28 , that is one of the problems, each country will start to evaluate if they are giving more than they are receiving. I understand why England being in is way better for Germany and France. England carries the weight for the E Us defense. Also as a richer nation with the 2nd largest economy in the EU, they contribute plenty.



and there is this

https://fullfact.org/europe/eu-debate-what-do-switzerland-and-norway-tell-us-about-life-outside-eu/
 
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I don't think anyone knows what exactly is "the will of the people".
The people have been lied to and are now faced with leaderships crises in the two main political parties and 2 of the 4 nations objecting to being dragged into this.
What do the people want?
(Well what do they want besides hunting anyone who looks slightly foreign off the island as has become a sickening trend these last couple of days.)
 
Salome said:
I don't think anyone knows what exactly is "the will of the people".

What do the people want?
(Well what do they want besides hunting anyone who looks slightly foreign off the island as has become a sickening trend these last couple of days.)
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A well known referendum with a very healthy turnout doesn't count ?
 
Bluer White said:
A well known referendum with a very healthy turnout doesn't count ?
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Except the polls are now suggesting that most people have a serious case of buyer's remorse due to (a) not understanding the implications of leaving and (b) believing that other people weren't actually going to vote "Leave". What a ridiculous situation.

I actually find this referendum to be largely undemocratic (while at the same time not believing that the UK leaving is actually a huge deal). The old people who will live out the fewest year affected by the change overwhelmingly voted to Leave. Meanwhile those who have decades left overwhelmingly voted to Remain. They are the ones who will be left with the aftermath of a decision they do not support.
 
anitram said:
Except the polls are now suggesting that most people have a serious case of buyer's remorse due to (a) not understanding the implications of leaving and (b) believing that other people weren't actually going to vote "Leave". What a ridiculous situation.

I actually find this referendum to be largely undemocratic (while at the same time not believing that the UK leaving is actually a huge deal). The old people who will live out the fewest year affected by the change overwhelmingly voted to Leave. Meanwhile those who have decades left overwhelmingly voted to Remain. They are the ones who will be left with the aftermath of a decision they do not support.
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Agree with many of your thoughts as usual. Except the largely undemocratic idea on this one.

Also agree that leaving isn't a huge deal. It's important for sure, not huge. The UK remains one of the anchors of NATO. The trade issues are a little more prickly in the short term, hurt feelings and all...I think those will be worked out over the next few years. Don't think it benefits many countries for the UK to be at 'the back of the queue' for long.

And yes, much of this was about national sovereignty of the UK and its borders not being dictated by Continental Europe :shrug:
 
anitram said:
I actually find this referendum to be largely undemocratic (while at the same time not believing that the UK leaving is actually a huge deal). The old people who will live out the fewest year affected by the change overwhelmingly voted to Leave. Meanwhile those who have decades left overwhelmingly voted to Remain. They are the ones who will be left with the aftermath of a decision they do not support.
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I've seen this idea a few times around the web. Is the insinuation that the elderly vote should have been discounted somehow?
 
anitram said:
and (b) believing that other people weren't actually going to vote "Leave".
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I'd heard about that, yeah, that some people voted to leave as a joke more than anything else, and after the results were announced, they sat there all shocked and were like, "I didn't actually think it was going to happen!"

Apparently they forgot the fact that the vote counters aren't mind readers, and weren't sitting there going, "Oh, well, clearly this person didn't REALLY mean it when they voted to leave, they were just joking, so we'll put them with the 'remain' pile instead, 'cause that's what they actually meant." It kind of doesn't work that way.

If nothing else, this election was a good example of why people shouldn't act so flippant when putting down a vote.
 
Moonlit_Angel said:
I'd heard about that, yeah, that some people voted to leave as a joke more than anything else, and after the results were announced, they sat there all shocked and were like, "I didn't actually think it was going to happen!"

Apparently they forgot the fact that the vote counters aren't mind readers, and weren't sitting there going, "Oh, well, clearly this person didn't REALLY mean it when they voted to leave, they were just joking, so we'll put them with the 'remain' pile instead, 'cause that's what they actually meant." It kind of doesn't work that way.

If nothing else, this election was a good example of why people shouldn't act so flippant when putting down a vote.
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You gonna vote for Trump just for a few guffaws with your friends?

:tsk:

What a rationalization of the UK vote.
 
mc I have been hearing about Article 50... on public radio... but either they haven't mentioned the part about Parliament having to vote on it yet OR probably more likely I didn't pay close enough attention ...

anitram and yeah have been hearing about 'buyers remorse" bc i don't have much data/month let I just looked at this and page before to see what else has been said....

I have also heard that after the official vote to to exit was announced.... On google the 2 topics that zoomed up in searches were:
'What is the EU?" & "What does Brexit mean? :huh: wth?!

So are the people asking this, does any body know (can this be figured out) if the majority are people who voted to leave?
 
LN7

yeah, it IS sad that so many older people did vote that way... and will be the ones affected for the least amount of time. I m an "older person"( relatively ) and yeah I'm here in the USA so I don't have direct experience.. I was definetly concerned about the UK leaving the EU.
 
U2democrat said:
Well crap. I'm devastated. My husband and I work at a UK university that is heavily dependent on EU students, EU staff, and EU partnerships and funding. We've been getting reports of some of our EU students receiving racial abuse today. It's just awful. I've not been to Scotland yet but it's looking more and more appealing...
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Hi u2 dem, long time. :wave: :hug: didn't think exiting was a good idea.

Scientists ( :ohmy: scientists )not happy either


not that scientists are exempt from making terrible mistakes or being influenced by $$$..... in general I support scientists!
 
gotta go...

must carefully parcel outt my 23MB @home left WiFi until 7/1 between free WiFi places.

Good Brits and the rest of us.

Oh and inNYC may really be bad IF too many 1% ers sink their $$$ e in real estate will the affordable apts here rents go up even more! :angry:
 
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dazzledbylight said:
mc I have been hearing about Article 50... on public radio... but either they haven't mentioned the part about Parliament having to vote on it yet OR probably more likely I didn't pay close enough attention ...
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it's really unclear - it's a question of executive/legislative power re. UK constitutional obligations - some are saying that in Britain it has to go thru parliament so as to become law, although i am also now hearing that it is a government decision which can be submitted to parliament for a vote - guess we will have to wait and see!

apparently parliament could still ignore Brexit though, if the majority are Remain as the referendum isn't legally binding - although there would be a huge political backlash if parliament were to do so

basically, we have no leaders and no answers right now, and bloody Boris is still seemingly vying for power while retracting his promises and making mutually incompatible claims (access to single market + points-system immigration)
 
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anitram said:
Except the polls are now suggesting that most people have a serious case of buyer's remorse due to (a) not understanding the implications of leaving and (b) believing that other people weren't actually going to vote "Leave". What a ridiculous situation.



I actually find this referendum to be largely undemocratic (while at the same time not believing that the UK leaving is actually a huge deal). The old people who will live out the fewest year affected by the change overwhelmingly voted to Leave. Meanwhile those who have decades left overwhelmingly voted to Remain. They are the ones who will be left with the aftermath of a decision they do not support.
Click to expand...


But the youth turnout was abysmal. Like 30%. So you can't really blame old people...
 
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