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Old 07-04-2016, 07:59 AM   #421
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Farage has left the (burning) building.

Something with rats and ships.
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Old 07-04-2016, 08:16 AM   #422
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Farage has left the (burning) building.

Something with rats and ships.
Or more like, captain and the Concordia cruise ship.
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Old 07-04-2016, 12:21 PM   #423
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this is eerie - article published by Nick Clegg (Lib Dems) the day before the referendum

https://inews.co.uk/opinion/comment/...ke-vote-leave/

Nick Clegg: what you will wake up to if we vote to Leave…


Wednesday June 22nd 2016

Are you still undecided? Are you someone who – pummelled by weeks of claim and counter-claim – has been left exhausted and annoyed? Have you been looking for answers, yet all you’ve encountered are insults and exaggeration?

Maybe you’re so fed up you think to hell with it, let’s throw caution to the wind and vote Brexit. Imagine, however, what happens next. Imagine how you will feel on 24 June?

Having woken on Friday to the news we’re quitting the EU, you will assume that those who persuaded you to take that leap of faith have a plan about what to do next.

So imagine how dismayed you will feel when you discover, instead, that Nigel Farage, Michael Gove and Boris Johnson can’t agree among themselves what life outside the EU looks like? They may be united by a ferocious loathing of the EU, but they have no shared plan for the future.

Gridlock

So you will look towards our leaders in Westminster to sort out the mess. Instead, they argue among themselves: the Conservatives descend into a bloody leadership election; Parliament enters years of constitutional gridlock trying to extricate itself from the intricate legal stitching which binds us to the EU and gives us access to world markets.

Then you discover just how unprepared the Government is – that there simply aren’t enough trade negotiators in Whitehall, for instance, with the expertise to renegotiate 50 or so international trade accords.

As politicians bicker, you become increasingly unnerved by what’s happening in the economy, too: overseas investors take fright; money flows out of the country; our credit rating is slashed; the interest on our borrowing goes up; unemployment rises; sterling tanks; prices in the shops go up.

Nicola Sturgeon soon announces that preparations have started for a second independence referendum, claiming it is the only way to keep Scotland in the EU. And this time most commentators think that she will win.

Still, at least they will finally sort out our borders, right? After all, ending mass immigration was the Brexiteers biggest claim of all.

So imagine how you’ll feel when you discover that they don’t have a plan for that either? Some argue for a new land border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland to stop EU immigrants coming in through the “back door”. Others that a new border would harm the peace in Northern Ireland. The Australian points system which they advocate is no solution either – it has led to immigration levels twice as high as in the UK.

Panic

Panic starts to spread among the 1.3 million Brits who live, study and retire elsewhere in the EU. Spanish politicians start to complain about paying for public services used by British pensioners. If we start excluding Spanish doctors and nurses, why should they keep paying for our pensioners?

And then there’s that faintly queasy feeling you get when you see Donald Trump on the TV, visiting the UK on Friday, declaring his joy at the Brexit vote.

Meanwhile Angela Merkel invites President Obama to an emergency summit to discuss the fallout – the UK is, of course, excluded from what soon emerges as the new “special relationship” between the US and Germany.

The Brexiteers say you will “regain control”. But it won’t feel like that. Instead, the economy lurches to recession; there’s upheaval in Westminster; no plan to allay concerns about immigration; another referendum in Scotland; a steep slide in Britain’s standing in the world.

Our wonderful country adrift – not in control. And for what? Nigel, Michael and Boris still won’t be able to tell you why.
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Old 07-04-2016, 02:55 PM   #424
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Originally Posted by mama cass View Post
this is eerie - article published by Nick Clegg (Lib Dems) the day before the referendum

https://inews.co.uk/opinion/comment/...ke-vote-leave/

Nick Clegg: what you will wake up to if we vote to Leave…


Wednesday June 22nd 2016

Are you still undecided? Are you someone who – pummelled by weeks of claim and counter-claim – has been left exhausted and annoyed? Have you been looking for answers, yet all you’ve encountered are insults and exaggeration?

Maybe you’re so fed up you think to hell with it, let’s throw caution to the wind and vote Brexit. Imagine, however, what happens next. Imagine how you will feel on 24 June?

Having woken on Friday to the news we’re quitting the EU, you will assume that those who persuaded you to take that leap of faith have a plan about what to do next.

So imagine how dismayed you will feel when you discover, instead, that Nigel Farage, Michael Gove and Boris Johnson can’t agree among themselves what life outside the EU looks like? They may be united by a ferocious loathing of the EU, but they have no shared plan for the future.

Gridlock

So you will look towards our leaders in Westminster to sort out the mess. Instead, they argue among themselves: the Conservatives descend into a bloody leadership election; Parliament enters years of constitutional gridlock trying to extricate itself from the intricate legal stitching which binds us to the EU and gives us access to world markets.

Then you discover just how unprepared the Government is – that there simply aren’t enough trade negotiators in Whitehall, for instance, with the expertise to renegotiate 50 or so international trade accords.

As politicians bicker, you become increasingly unnerved by what’s happening in the economy, too: overseas investors take fright; money flows out of the country; our credit rating is slashed; the interest on our borrowing goes up; unemployment rises; sterling tanks; prices in the shops go up.

Nicola Sturgeon soon announces that preparations have started for a second independence referendum, claiming it is the only way to keep Scotland in the EU. And this time most commentators think that she will win.

Still, at least they will finally sort out our borders, right? After all, ending mass immigration was the Brexiteers biggest claim of all.

So imagine how you’ll feel when you discover that they don’t have a plan for that either? Some argue for a new land border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland to stop EU immigrants coming in through the “back door”. Others that a new border would harm the peace in Northern Ireland. The Australian points system which they advocate is no solution either – it has led to immigration levels twice as high as in the UK.

Panic

Panic starts to spread among the 1.3 million Brits who live, study and retire elsewhere in the EU. Spanish politicians start to complain about paying for public services used by British pensioners. If we start excluding Spanish doctors and nurses, why should they keep paying for our pensioners?

And then there’s that faintly queasy feeling you get when you see Donald Trump on the TV, visiting the UK on Friday, declaring his joy at the Brexit vote.

Meanwhile Angela Merkel invites President Obama to an emergency summit to discuss the fallout – the UK is, of course, excluded from what soon emerges as the new “special relationship” between the US and Germany.

The Brexiteers say you will “regain control”. But it won’t feel like that. Instead, the economy lurches to recession; there’s upheaval in Westminster; no plan to allay concerns about immigration; another referendum in Scotland; a steep slide in Britain’s standing in the world.

Our wonderful country adrift – not in control. And for what? Nigel, Michael and Boris still won’t be able to tell you why.

I read this a few days ago. Makes me miss when Nick Clegg was relevant.


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Old 07-04-2016, 09:42 PM   #425
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Today is the 240th anniversary of the original Brexit. We did it better


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Old 07-08-2016, 04:02 PM   #426
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British tourists refused cash exchange amid market turmoil

This would have to suck really badly. Imagine going on vacation to exchange your quid and get shit in return. The glorious days of the sterling pound are long gone for good.
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Old 07-08-2016, 05:17 PM   #427
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Long gone for good? I would imagine that's a bit of an exaggeration.
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Old 07-09-2016, 11:15 AM   #428
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I don't think Brexit will really matter, the Italians are balancing on one leg on the edge of a cliff right now, will they fall or is the greatest bailout in history about to begin?


The Italian job | The Economist

Italy must choose between the euro and its own economic survival

France and Italy could be the next European economies to crash | Voices | The Independent

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Old 07-11-2016, 06:37 PM   #429
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Long gone for good? I would imagine that's a bit of an exaggeration.
Well think about it, the sterling pound held the strongest exchange rate against the US dollar to a ratio of almost 1 to 2 around 2007. It has been then consistently diminishing reaching an average of 1 to 1.60 and now it's at its minimum at 1 to 1.30.

You can speculate that it will get stronger or weaker depending on how their economic policies with the EU play out, but it's uncertain. The euro has also been falling rapidly.

Seeing what was once considered one of the most stable and strongest currencies being rejected in exchange houses around the world makes you think how long it will take to recover, if ever.
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Old 07-11-2016, 07:26 PM   #430
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Well think about it, the sterling pound held the strongest exchange rate against the US dollar to a ratio of almost 1 to 2 around 2007. It has been then consistently diminishing reaching an average of 1 to 1.60 and now it's at its minimum at 1 to 1.30.

You can speculate that it will get stronger or weaker depending on how their economic policies with the EU play out, but it's uncertain. The euro has also been falling rapidly.

Seeing what was once considered one of the most stable and strongest currencies being rejected in exchange houses around the world makes you think how long it will take to recover, if ever.

But the full scale relationship for the GBPUSD isn't a mere 9 years. And the GBP's strength was never resting on the EU by any stretch of the imagination. Long term, the U.K. will be just fine, assuming it itself doesn't collapse. If anything, the long term implications could even be positive for the United Kingdom.

It's not like this is the lowest the exchange rate as ever been. Currencies crash based upon global economics and politics. And they rebound. 2007 wasn't the strongest it had been, and this isn't the weakest it has been.

If you truly believe the GBP rested on the EU, then yes, it is toast. But something tells me not a whole lot will change between a very large British economy and the rest of Europe, in the grand scheme of things.

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Old 07-12-2016, 02:29 AM   #431
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If anything, the long term implications could even be positive for the United Kingdom.
Again, how?
If anything, especially in the long run 'unions' are beneficial.
Hedging your bets and all.

It's not like the UK is an economic powerhouse outside of The City.
So what happens if the financial sector takes another beating (which does seem like it's on its way to happen)? Will the UK then have to start to look at Greece as an example so it can become a tourism based economy?
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Old 07-12-2016, 03:03 AM   #432
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Again, how?
If anything, especially in the long run 'unions' are beneficial.
Hedging your bets and all.

It's not like the UK is an economic powerhouse outside of The City.
So what happens if the financial sector takes another beating (which does seem like it's on its way to happen)? Will the UK then have to start to look at Greece as an example so it can become a tourism based economy?

"Again?" You haven't said anything to me. Unless you're supporting his position, which was that a less-than-decade trend implies the ultimate-and-forever demise of the GBP.

There's plenty of ways this can be beneficial to the UK. For one, if the EU doesn't survive, the UK alone and ahead of that future potential mess could be beneficial. But let's not act like there's a precedence for this. I'm not even defending Brexit as an appropriate move that was supported by any populous rationale. But to act as though anyone truly knows the long term effects of this move... what basis have you to support that claim?

That's a laughable idea that the UK would need to become a tourism based economy. We are talking about the fifth largest economy in volume. In a fully developed country. Loaded with infrastructure. Connected in trade to dozens of countries worldwide who still hail the queen. A large producer of energy. An even larger producer of science and technology, aerospace defense, military, and arms.

Yeah, they're about to take a near term beating. But to think a country as well equipped as the United Kingdom is somehow set to fall off the face of the earth because Europe will temporarily shit on them is silly. Hell, half of the economic beating they're about to take is purely based upon global panic.
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Old 07-12-2016, 04:03 AM   #433
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A large producer of energy.
that would be EDF...
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Old 07-12-2016, 04:07 AM   #434
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trouble is, even if low sterling might be good for exports, the gains would be obliterated by imports of raw materials

already, there are factories being mothballed, businesses moving their production to mainland Europe

not to mention food... we hardly grow anything decent in Britain - all our food comes from southern Europe
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Old 07-12-2016, 05:02 AM   #435
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There's plenty of ways this can be beneficial to the UK. For one, if the EU doesn't survive, the UK alone and ahead of that future potential mess could be beneficial. But let's not act like there's a precedence for this. I'm not even defending Brexit as an appropriate move that was supported by any populous rationale. But to act as though anyone truly knows the long term effects of this move... what basis have you to support that claim?
I didn't claim that the long term effects will be disastrous.
I just don't see how UK outside of EU will outperform UK within EU.
Especially as the UK will still be tied to the EU, as much as some want to pretend this will not be the case.

I do claim that in the long term unions, which are by definition more diversified, will always be able to deal better with crises than stand alone countries.

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That's a laughable idea that the UK would need to become a tourism based economy. We are talking about the fifth largest economy in volume. In a fully developed country. Loaded with infrastructure. Connected in trade to dozens of countries worldwide who still hail the queen. A large producer of energy. An even larger producer of science and technology, aerospace defense, military, and arms.
Of course that is a laughable idea. But my point is that The City represent a somewhat disproportionate amount of the UK economy and that the UK will be better able to deal with another financial services crisis inside than outside of the UK.

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Yeah, they're about to take a near term beating. But to think a country as well equipped as the United Kingdom is somehow set to fall off the face of the earth because Europe will temporarily shit on them is silly. Hell, half of the economic beating they're about to take is purely based upon global panic.
I don't think the UK will enter the dark ages now. There is no reason why it would beyond that it has seemed to enter a period of political instability and business does not like instability. Months prior to the referendum companies already postponed possible investments in the UK. I don't see how that is going to change in the next couple of years with no insight in what Brexit is going to entail. Will the Brexit voters be satisfied with a deal similar to what Norway and Switzerland have which will achieve about 1% of what they were promised by the Leave Campaign? I don't know. But if I was deciding over funds of a major company I would look elsewhere to put my money.

Why UK would perform better outside than inside the EU, I still don't understand. Yes, if the entire EU explodes after UK has left (to be honest, if the EU is going to explode I reckon it's more likely to happen within the next 3 years while UK is still part of EU) than this would be the case. But otherwise, I don't see it.
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