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Old 06-30-2016, 09:47 AM   #406
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True. But then again when has any people actually been better off after a revolution? Ask the French, the Russians, the Iranians, the Egyptians and the Syrians if their revolutions improved on their situations.
well Bastille Day is a pretty big thing here
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Old 06-30-2016, 09:51 AM   #407
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well this trainwreck is still so compelling

Gove has done another u-turn and is now running for PM and Boris has stood down

Labour is still in complete disarray and emotions are running high

no sign of the stiff upper lip and all that...

all we need now is for U2 to stealth drop their album onto everyone's iphones again

(not kidding - we need saving from this hell)
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Old 06-30-2016, 09:54 AM   #408
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Boris just repeating his youth in the Bullingdon Club. Smashing things up and then running off.
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Old 06-30-2016, 10:04 AM   #409
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Boris just repeating his youth in the Bullingdon Club. Smashing things up and then running off.
trouble is, he's got nowhere to go - he will be the most hated man in Britain - on BOTH SIDES - bet he never saw that one coming...
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Old 06-30-2016, 10:19 AM   #410
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Because a free trade zone needs a common set of rules and regulations to work. Otherwise jobs would move en masse to those countries with the lowest wages and standards. Like what happened with NAFTA. We don't want a race to the bottom. Consumers need to know that what they are buying in the shop is actually what it says it is. That the chocolate they're buying is actual chocolate, not some poor substitute or made of poor quality.
That is not what happened with NAFTA. Rather there has been net US job creation since the launch of NAFTA. Sure, some unskilled jobs left for Mexico etc, but this was going to happen with or without a free-trade agreement, whether to Mexico or Indonesia or wherever else.

Yes there is bureaucracy necessary for a free-trade agreement, but I will hold to my point that the Euro and European Central Bank are not necessary for that to work. You just have to look at Greece to see how problematic it is to apply the same interest rates, goods access, etc to economies with wildly different strength levels. Sending a bunch of Mercedes over to Greece on super easy credit hasn't worked out for anyone.
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Old 06-30-2016, 10:19 AM   #411
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bet he never saw that one coming...
They never do.
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Old 06-30-2016, 10:31 AM   #412
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(and naturally I disagree with the notion that the Russian revolution of 1917 did not improve the situation at the time, especially given the state of the Tsarist regime).
at least until stalin, i would say you're absolutely right.
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Old 06-30-2016, 10:36 AM   #413
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Those early years under Lenin were hellish, weren't they? Famine, civil war, state-wide censorship - I'd be curious to hear how things were worse under Nicholas, World War I notwithstanding.
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Old 06-30-2016, 10:59 AM   #414
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Those early years under Lenin were hellish, weren't they? Famine, civil war, state-wide censorship - I'd be curious to hear how things were worse under Nicholas, World War I notwithstanding.
I'm going to keep this hidden, don't want to get too off topic in this thread.

 
The early years weren't easy by any stretch. It would have been unreasonable to imagine they could have been plain sailing. Coming through a revolution and then engaged in a civil war backed by foreign powers (which of course had a resulting effect on further years). Famines were a common occurrence in the Russian Empire. The putting down of the German revolution didn't help either. It was not really an ideal time to have initiated a revolution.

The rule of the last Tsar had events such as the suppression of the 1905 revolution and Bloody Sunday. It's important to understand the relations between the Tsar and the working masses leading to the overthrow of the monarchy.
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Old 06-30-2016, 11:49 AM   #415
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wow, Leicester is not far from where i grew up - it's a really multicultural place - awesome football club lately too hehe



well i'm not sure how the vote went in Leicester, but the Midlands as a whole weren't looking great i think, and sadly racism there can be pretty grim due to the very vocal extreme right contingent as always in a multicultural context



but it's hard to know without being there, and most people are lovely, just a few idiots spoiling it for everyone... there's a "safety pin" campaign happening in the UK at the moment where people are wearing a plain safety pin to show others that they are a "safe" person to sit next to on the train etc. - although i can't believe it has come to this



however, apparently travel warnings have been issued for Britain following Brexit and i've read reports about even tourists being attacked - i look visibly "foreign" in Britain and am holding off plans to visit family over there right now, but am hoping it will calm down soon... good luck with everything!! feel free to PM me if you want to chat about things!!

Leicester was a small dot of remain in a sea of leave. Where did you grow up?

I'm not too worried. I'll just play the card that I'm Northern Irish. It's totally messed up what is happening over there though.
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Old 06-30-2016, 11:59 AM   #416
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I'm going to keep this hidden, don't want to get too off topic in this thread.

 
The early years weren't easy by any stretch. It would have been unreasonable to imagine they could have been plain sailing. Coming through a revolution and then engaged in a civil war backed by foreign powers (which of course had a resulting effect on further years). Famines were a common occurrence in the Russian Empire. The putting down of the German revolution didn't help either. It was not really an ideal time to have initiated a revolution.

The rule of the last Tsar had events such as the suppression of the 1905 revolution and Bloody Sunday. It's important to understand the relations between the Tsar and the working masses leading to the overthrow of the monarchy.
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Old 06-30-2016, 12:14 PM   #417
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Also, who called it?

Cameron with the checkmate on Boris Johnson. He's not running.
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Old 06-30-2016, 04:24 PM   #418
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But then again when has any people actually been better off after a revolution? Ask the French, the Russians, the Iranians, the Egyptians and the Syrians if their revolutions improved on their situations.
Ask portuguese if their lives got better or worse before the revolution(s).
Just a mere example. We can go back in History and travel the globe to find other good examples.
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Old 06-30-2016, 05:35 PM   #419
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i would suggest that cuba was better off from the perspective of the average citizen after castro booted batista, as long as that citizen wasn't involved with the batista government.
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Old 07-03-2016, 12:08 PM   #420
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