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Old 06-27-2016, 03:56 PM   #271
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england's pull out game on point these days fam
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Old 06-27-2016, 05:03 PM   #272
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Question: I know that the UK has a fairly new Supreme Court. Is this the sort of issue that they may eventually intervene in?

I ask because it seems like some people think withdrawing will require a parliamentary vote, while others think that this can be done unilaterally by the PM. I ask because even if Boris Johnson wins the Tory leadership contest and the government isn't dissolved, it sounds like he might have a hard time keeping the Tories together enough to actually get parliament to approve activating Article 50. If he can do it unilaterally, that's another story. So I have to wonder if there will be some sort of constitutional crisis if he tries to activate Article 50 unilaterally.


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digitize, i honestly can't say for sure - i haven't got the confidence to say 100% based on my own knowledge as it was completely new to me also (i am a political rather than a legal beast and had just assumed the referendum would be respected - Cameron had said this all along and had said Art 50 would be triggered immediately, and i didn't know all the legal ins and outs in that respect so was taken aback when i heard about the need to put it to parliament), but what i've been told is any attempt to trigger Article 50 without parliamentary backing could be considered unconstitutional and challenged in the courts... now, once Art 50 has been triggered it's meant to be irreversible, but as it's meant to be done in accordance with national constitutional obligations maybe, if ruled not to have been done so, it could be revoked - but it has never been tested and it is all soooo unclear, not to mention the fact that the politicians are still acting as though Brexit is all going ahead and Cameron/Boris have made no mention of the obligation for a parliamentary vote (although this has been mentioned by the MP David Lammy i believe)

i'm checking info both sides of the Channel and French (reputable) press is reporting it in the same way, i.e., a constitutional nightmare to even invoke the exit clause due to the need for a parliamentary vote...

so i cannot understand why, other than in the Guardian today, it's getting very little coverage... many people basically seem to be rolling over and accepting a Brexit as an inevitability, but i refuse to give up hope just yet...

also, i don't trust Boris (or any of them actually) an inch! he is saying he doesn't want to be hasty, and is in no rush to invoke the exit clause (that would be suicidal anyway, as fuck all could get negotiated in the 2-year time frame), so he is playing for time... not to mention retracting all his promises... he even said today he wants to "intensify European relations", the guy is ridiculous and should be publicly discredited - i cannot believe he might actually be a leadership prospect!!
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Old 06-27-2016, 05:26 PM   #273
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The media is really bugging me on this one. Calling for another referendum because some people are stupid, or because old people have voted the wrong way and they die soon anyways, or even an elected MP tweeting that the referendum is non-binding. Jesus fucking christ people, it's called a democracy. You can't demand a rerun because you don't like the result. That's not how it works.

Instead of wasting time on this, it would be much more beneficial to stop squabbling and start thinking about how to make the best out of this shitty situation and hopefully negotiate terms similar to what Switzerland or Norway has.


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Old 06-27-2016, 05:30 PM   #274
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england's pull out game on point these days fam
Everyone knows pulling out isn't 100% effective
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Old 06-27-2016, 05:31 PM   #275
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I have to say it's kind of nice watching lying, grandstanding conservatives having to live with the bullshit they promulgate. They always seem to forget that at some point, someone's going to call their bluff. They won't get bailed out every time.
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Old 06-27-2016, 05:32 PM   #276
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The media is really bugging me on this one. Calling for another referendum because some people are stupid, or because old people have voted the wrong way and they die soon anyways, or even an elected MP tweeting that the referendum is non-binding. Jesus fucking christ people, it's called a democracy. You can't demand a rerun because you don't like the result. That's not how it works.

Instead of wasting time on this, it would be much more beneficial to stop squabbling and start thinking about how to make the best out of this shitty situation and hopefully negotiate terms similar to what Switzerland or Norway has.


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no, that's not the problem - the problem is the narrow win - 3.98% is not sufficient to be democratic! in the 1975 referendum to join the EEC, there was a 34% majority (67/33), so a huuuuge difference

if there had been a similar outcome, it would be much clearer and much more democratic

the Leave campaign also made it very clear during the campaign that if there was a narrow win for Remain, they would demand a second referendum

a 3.98% majority out of a 72% turn-out just isn't high enough to demand such far-reaching changes to the status quo

even in government, with proportional representation, power is proportional to the number of votes - a small majority gets a small majority of seats or bargaining power - that's how our democracy works
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Old 06-27-2016, 05:41 PM   #277
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I have to say it's kind of nice watching lying, grandstanding conservatives having to live with the bullshit they promulgate. They always seem to forget that at some point, someone's going to call their bluff. They won't get bailed out every time.
It's also nice seeing a major country more fucked up politically than we are.

Nice and frightening. But nice.
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Old 06-27-2016, 05:48 PM   #278
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It's also nice seeing a major country more fucked up politically than we are.

Nice and frightening. But nice.
Agreed.
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Old 06-27-2016, 05:54 PM   #279
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It's also nice seeing a major country more fucked up politically than we are.

Nice and frightening. But nice.
if we're going down we're taking you all down with us
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Old 06-27-2016, 07:15 PM   #280
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Originally Posted by zuma View Post
The media is really bugging me on this one. Calling for another referendum because some people are stupid, or because old people have voted the wrong way and they die soon anyways, or even an elected MP tweeting that the referendum is non-binding. Jesus fucking christ people, it's called a democracy. You can't demand a rerun because you don't like the result. That's not how it works.

Instead of wasting time on this, it would be much more beneficial to stop squabbling and start thinking about how to make the best out of this shitty situation and hopefully negotiate terms similar to what Switzerland or Norway has.


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That's bullshit. If the result of the vote and also the revelation of all the populist lies makes the public opinion change, then it's not democratic to just carry out whatever the result was.
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Old 06-27-2016, 07:20 PM   #281
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no, that's not the problem - the problem is the narrow win - 3.98% is not sufficient to be democratic! in the 1975 referendum to join the EEC, there was a 34% majority (67/33), so a huuuuge difference

Yeah but where do you draw the line? Is 5% enough? 10%? If you have a majority vote, then that's what it is. Otherwise we can just get rid of refendums all together



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Old 06-27-2016, 07:22 PM   #282
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That's bullshit. If the result of the vote and also the revelation of all the populist lies makes the public opinion change, then it's not democratic to just carry out whatever the result was.

So if Trump wins, we're also going to ignore the election result? And demand a new election where nobody is allowed to lie?


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Old 06-27-2016, 07:26 PM   #283
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Brexit

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That's bullshit. If the result of the vote and also the revelation of all the populist lies makes the public opinion change, then it's not democratic to just carry out whatever the result was.

I agree. This is why I support recalling all presidents the minute their approval ratings dip below 50. The people have re-spoken.


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Old 06-27-2016, 07:38 PM   #284
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Looks like team England is having some regrexit feels. They didn't know Iceland could win and now they want a do over but sadly they've already chosen to Brexit the euro.
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Old 06-27-2016, 08:09 PM   #285
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or even an elected MP tweeting that the referendum is non-binding.
What's the problem with this? This referendum isn't binding.

It would be a brave parliament that defies a majority - even a small one - but it can.
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