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Old 01-19-2009, 01:32 PM   #121
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The fact you start you paragraph with "If anyone was forced out of their home", like you have no comprehension of history, and that up to one million Palestinians were forceably removed from their homes, makes everything else you state completely in question.

Please, at least recognize actual history before you put forth your views - Maybe you need to do a little reading before painting the Arabs as evil and the Israelis as innocents. Remember, no matter how hard you don't want to acknowledge it, there are actually two sides to every story.

Ever heard of the Dier Yassin massacre? Apparently not, since you aren't even sure a single Palestinian was removed from their home!

Here is the UN website for Palestine - lots of actual, verified, information here

Permanent Observer Mission of Palestine to the United Nations

This page is a concise history of the establishment of Israel

Permanent Observer Mission of Palestine to the United Nations

If the Palestinians had simply accepted the two state solution in 1947, there would not have been a Palestinian refugee problem. The Palestinian refugee problem was primarily created by the 1948 war, a war that Israel did not start and a war that was supported by the Palestinians. Its not to say that there were no istances of injustice by Israelis, but the vast majority of Palestinians who left the area, left with the Arab forces that were in retreat.

If Israel wanted to, they could have ejected every single Arab, but they did not, which is why today one out of every 5 Israelis is Arab. The majority of Arabs that left Israel were not uprooted, but willingly left as the Arab forces retreated.


Just out of curiousity, do you support Israels right to exist?
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Old 01-19-2009, 01:37 PM   #122
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A two state solution was offered in 1947. Israel accepted it, but unfortunately the Palestinians rejected it.
So were the Palestinians unreasonable or were the terms of the deal unreasonable?
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Old 01-19-2009, 01:37 PM   #123
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HUH??? So what are the Arab-Israeils? Not Palestinians? Arab-Israelis are Palestinians who happen to have been born in Israel, or Palestinians who were living in a land that was partitioned and deemed to belong to Israel. They are all the same people ethnically, culturally, etc, just artificial borders make a distinction without a difference between which passport (or, in the case of the Palestinians living in the West Bank/Gaza, no passport) they carry. They are the same people, no matter what you want to call them.

In that sense, you could say that they are ethnically the same as people in Jordan, Lebanon, and Israel. There is a difference between Arab's who live in Israel and those who live on the West Bank/Gaza. Arab's who live in Israel are citizens of Israel, while those who live on the West Bank and Gaza are not and are refered to as Palestinians. Arabs living in Israel are Israelis, NOT Palestinians.
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Old 01-19-2009, 01:41 PM   #124
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If the Palestinians had simply accepted the two state solution in 1947, there would not have been a Palestinian refugee problem. The Palestinian refugee problem was primarily created by the 1948 war, a war that Israel did not start and a war that was supported by the Palestinians. Its not to say that there were no istances of injustice by Israelis, but the vast majority of Palestinians who left the area, left with the Arab forces that were in retreat.

If Israel wanted to, they could have ejected every single Arab, but they did not, which is why today one out of every 5 Israelis is Arab. The majority of Arabs that left Israel were not uprooted, but willingly left as the Arab forces retreated.


Just out of curiousity, do you support Israels right to exist?
Of course I support Israels right to exist - simply because I actually dare to try to put forth actual historical facts which recognizes both sides of history, instead of bs biased pro-Israeli propoganda doesn't mean I don't believe the state of Israel shouldn't exist. WTF kind of question is that??

What's next, are you going to deem me an anti-Semite because I dare to state that Israel was founded on terrorism (it was), and that their current policy of settlements is in clear violation of UN resolutions?

By the way, its not as simplistic as "if the Palestinians would have just accepted the crumbs they were offered in 1947, everything would be fine"
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Old 01-19-2009, 01:43 PM   #125
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So were the Palestinians unreasonable or were the terms of the deal unreasonable?
The million dollar question - what do you think?


The General Assembly adopts resolution 181 (II) on 29 November regarding the future government of Palestine. The resolution sets forth a plan partitioning Palestine into two states, Arab and Jewish, with an economic union and with Jerusalem as a corpus separatum under an international regime to be administered by the United Nations. Palestinians, who account for 70% of the population, are only allocated 43% of the country. Jews, which only accounted for 30% of the population would be allocated 56.5% of Palestine.
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Old 01-19-2009, 01:43 PM   #126
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So were the Palestinians unreasonable or were the terms of the deal unreasonable?

The Palestinians were unreasonable because they were offered the land they were already living on, and simply would not allow the formation of any Jewish state regardless of its size. The Palestinians will never get a deal as good as they were offered in 1947. They got half of the land, while the state of Israel was divided into 3 area's. Jerusalem was to be made a UN city under neither sides control. It was the best deal that could have been reached but the Palestinians were unwilling to allow the formation of any Jewish State. The Palestinians were not interested in any peace deal, they wanted the entire area including the lands owned by Jews for themselves.
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Old 01-19-2009, 01:47 PM   #127
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Of course I support Israels right to exist - simply because I actually dare to try to put forth actual historical facts which recognizes both sides of history, instead of bs biased pro-Israeli propoganda doesn't mean I don't believe the state of Israel shouldn't exist. WTF kind of question is that??

What's next, are you going to deem me an anti-Semite because I dare to state that Israel was founded on terrorism (it was), and that their current policy of settlements is in clear violation of UN resolutions?

By the way, its not as simplistic as "if the Palestinians would have just accepted the crumbs they were offered in 1947, everything would be fine"
Do you realize the Palestinians in 1947 were against the formation of any Jewish state? They did not support Israel's right to exist, yet Israel supported the right of the Palestinians to form their own state.

Do agree the Palestinians in this respect are wrong?
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Old 01-19-2009, 01:50 PM   #128
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The million dollar question - what do you think?


The General Assembly adopts resolution 181 (II) on 29 November regarding the future government of Palestine. The resolution sets forth a plan partitioning Palestine into two states, Arab and Jewish, with an economic union and with Jerusalem as a corpus separatum under an international regime to be administered by the United Nations. Palestinians, who account for 70% of the population, are only allocated 43% of the country. Jews, which only accounted for 30% of the population would be allocated 56.5% of Palestine.
The Palestinians were unwilling to accept any deal. Jews only received the land that they already owned. The UN deal did not uproot ANYONE! The Palestinians will never see a deal as good as the 1947 plan.
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Old 01-19-2009, 01:57 PM   #129
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Do you realize the Palestinians in 1947 were against the formation of any Jewish state? They did not support Israel's right to exist, yet Israel supported the right of the Palestinians to form their own state.

Do agree the Palestinians in this respect are wrong?

Well, Israel did not exist, and neither did a state of Palestine at that point, so I am guessing you mean the Arabs and the Jews living in the area? I do believe the Arab nations made a mistake by not accepting sooner the inevitable - that Israel would exist as a nation. I do think their resistance at the time is understandable - would you like to give away your home, your land, because the UN tells you do so? I doubt it. I'm not saying they were right, I'm just saying I understand the human emotion of resistance involved.

I believe both sides went at the creation of the state of Israel in a really really bad way. Diplomacy could have gone far, but terrorism, as it often does, seemed to override this. Do I believe Israelis were totally innocent victims, and the Arabs were in the absolute wrong? No. I believe both sides played roles - neither side is innocent, both have blood on their hands. I don't see it as black and white, as apparently you do.
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Old 01-19-2009, 01:59 PM   #130
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The Palestinians were unwilling to accept any deal. Jews only received the land that they already owned. The UN deal did not uproot ANYONE!.
Seriously, do you honestly believe this? If so, I really encourage you to study actual history, not some pro-Israeli version of history. Just actual history.
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Old 01-19-2009, 02:32 PM   #131
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What's next, are you going to deem me an anti-Semite because I dare to state that Israel was founded on terrorism (it was), and that their current policy of settlements is in clear violation of UN resolutions?


careful ... are there more than 1441 settlements?

(it's an inside FYM thing, i have nothing of actual substance to add anymore)
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Old 01-19-2009, 03:29 PM   #132
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Seriously, do you honestly believe this? If so, I really encourage you to study actual history, not some pro-Israeli version of history. Just actual history.
could you give me the source to where your facts are taken from?
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Old 01-19-2009, 03:38 PM   #133
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Do you realize the Palestinians in 1947 were against the formation of any Jewish state? They did not support Israel's right to exist, yet Israel supported the right of the Palestinians to form their own state.

Do agree the Palestinians in this respect are wrong?
Considering the acts of terrorism some Jewish groups were committing at the time, I imagine there would have been very little acceptance of legitimizing it.

Is that wrong?
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Old 01-19-2009, 03:45 PM   #134
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could you give me the source to where your facts are taken from?
I'm guessing history..?
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Old 01-19-2009, 03:51 PM   #135
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could you give me the source to where your facts are taken from?
From history. From studying the region intensively. From getting a B.A in History, with an emphasis on the Middle East. You can do you own research and find the actual history - that is what I encourage everyone to do. Online, it is difficult to find non-biased facts one way or the other. The UN website on Palestine is a decent source of actual historical facts, as the UN really doesn't have a dog in the fight, so to speak.
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