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Old 01-18-2009, 10:05 PM   #76
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Umm, last I checked, Palestine ISN'T a country, its two separate occupied territories. Occupied by Israel. That's the whole point. Decades of occupation tends to bread anti-occupier sentiment, don't you think??

And I seriously question whether you have actually been to the West Bank or Gaza, (or even Israel for that matter, since it seems you don't know how to spell it) and compared their miserable quality of life of even the middle class Palestinian to the quality of life of a poor or lower class Israeli. No comparison. Apartheid still exists in this world, in the form of Israelis control over the Palestinians every movement. Its just that the US government will never recognize this.

I for one was thrilled Bono seized his chance - I have always wondered why he hasn't really said anything directly about Palestine before (or maybe he has and I missed it?) You could tell by the look on Obama's face he was less than thrilled - typical US govt response, we wouldn't want to look like we are criticizing Israel as they massacre innocent civilians, right??
Top post. Take a bow.
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Old 01-18-2009, 10:07 PM   #77
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I guess everyones ignoring my amazing and never-before-thought-of idea
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Old 01-18-2009, 10:10 PM   #78
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It is a huge shame that their situation is such that thug groups like Hamas can emerge and claim "leadership" roles and it is even more shameful that Arab countries exploit their Palestinian "brothers and sisters" while never providing meaningful solutions, improving infrastructure or anything else worthwhile.
And Israel is supposed to wait for something else worthwhile to be elected in while these thugs (aside from Hamas) continue to threaten and attack its citizens? I understand that this war is disproportionate, but I don't think you can claim that Israel is the bully of all these nations.
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Old 01-18-2009, 10:11 PM   #79
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I guess everyones ignoring my amazing and never-before-thought-of idea
I think it's a great idea. I elect you to enforce it.
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Old 01-18-2009, 10:14 PM   #80
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Thanks. Everyone thinks im crazy
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Old 01-18-2009, 10:15 PM   #81
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And Israel is supposed to wait for something else worthwhile to be elected in while these thugs (aside from Hamas) continue to threaten and attack its citizens? I understand that this war is disproportionate, but I don't think you can claim that Israel is the bully of all these nations.
I never claimed that, I don't really know what you're talking about here. I criticized the Arab nations for exploiting the Palestinians politically (driving up passions on Arab streets) while not doing anything whatsoever for them that is constructive.

Gaza actually probably has a relatively simple solution, except for the part where it is not contiguously connected to the West Bank. It is the West Bank that is the major problem. One of the main obstacles are the Israeli settlers, all of whom are there illegally, hundreds of thousands of them, imposing an apartheid on the West Bank Palestinians who live in bantustans cut up by "Israeli-only" roads and such.
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Old 01-18-2009, 10:17 PM   #82
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I guess everyones ignoring my amazing and never-before-thought-of idea

We're not ignoring it, but without anything more from you to add to the discussion than "hey, share the land", what could we possibly intelligently say in response?

I think what you posted goes without saying - the question is, how are two parties to share something equally, when one party has all the power?

Try this one on - How about someone came to your house, kicked you out, moved you to an entirely different part of the country without compensation for the house they took from you, and now, 50 years later say they want to negotiate for you to actually live in "freedom" on the land they removed you to in the first place? Would you like to enter into a "negotiation" like that???

Until and unless the Palestinians are treated equally in all aspects of life, which will never happen so long as the U.S. continues its blind support of Israels' oppression, there will never be peace in that region.
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Old 01-18-2009, 10:18 PM   #83
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I never claimed that, I don't really know what you're talking about here. I criticized the Arab nations for exploiting the Palestinians politically (driving up passions on Arab streets) while not doing anything whatsoever for them that is constructive
what he's saying is that Israel's not gonna wait till Gaza decides to help itself.
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Old 01-18-2009, 10:18 PM   #84
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There may be a limited reach in the immediate physical destruction.

But the radiation resulting therefrom would not discriminate between Israeli and Palestinian and Egyptian and Jordanian bodies, etc.
The area that would be effected by radiation would be dependent on whether the nuclear device was detonated on the ground, close to the ground or was an air burst. A ground Burst can produce significant amounts of fallout that could travel far from the immediate area effected by the blast, heat and prompt radiation. An air burst produce little to no fall out and the only radiation is really prompt radiation which depending on the size of the nuclear weapon( the larger yield nuclear weapons), might cover an area that is smaller than the area covered by blast and heat.

So its dependent on where the nuclear device is detonated as well as the size of it. A 1 megaton air burst over Tel Aviv would effect primarily just area's inside Israel, while a 1 megaton ground burst in Tel Aviv could kick up fallout that could travel into Palestinian area's, Jordan, Egypt, Syria or Lebanon depending on weather conditions.
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Old 01-18-2009, 10:19 PM   #85
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We're not ignoring it, but without anything more from you to add to the discussion than "hey, share the land", what could we possibly intelligently say in response?

I think what you posted goes without saying - the question is, how are two parties to share something equally, when one party has all the power?

Try this one on - How about someone came to your house, kicked you out, moved you to an entirely different part of the country without compensation for the house they took from you, and now, 50 years later say they want to negotiate for you to actually live in "freedom" on the land they removed you to in the first place? Would you like to enter into a "negotiation" like that???

Until and unless the Palestinians are treated equally in all aspects of life, which will never happen so long as the U.S. continues its blind support of Israels' oppression, there will never be peace in that region.
if you wanna get technical, Isreal was there first long before Palestine. And were kicked out by the Palestinians So don't even go there.

Also, what I said was kinda a joke.
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Old 01-18-2009, 10:21 PM   #86
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if you wanna get technical, Isreal was there first long before Palestine. And were kicked out by the Palestinians So don't even go there.
Don't even go where? You have yet to actually respond to anything with anything more than non-sensical sound bites. When you actually can back up your views with some facts, please let me know.
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Old 01-18-2009, 10:23 PM   #87
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There's quite a fine line about what the Europeans say. Israel is our only friend in the middle east. (Debate that if you will.) I don't know if we are Israel's only friend, but it certainly feels that way sometimes.
Additionally, Israel is surrounded by countries whose leaders who feel like they don't have a right to be there at all. I'm not just talking about the Palestinian territory.
I almost feel like if the United States stops "supporting" Israel, or claims that they are doing something wrong it will lead to an open invitation for any of those countries to do what they wish. It's almost like Israel is our little sister who is being bullied by the older, 6th graders with big rocks. You want her to stand up on her own two feet, but you know that those bullies can plow her down at any moment.
I have a great fear that Israel will be nuked one day and I'll never speak to my very good friend again. One bomb would be all that takes to destroy it, size wise. Who will retaliate in a war they really want no part of? Us, of course.

I've thought about this quite a lot in the past few weeks. You can say that I am a pretty ardent supporter of Israel in general (I wish my mom would have gone through with her bat mitzvah so I could make use of the birthright trip ) and their right to exist, but what they have done in the past few weeks has weakened them far more than they will ever know. Damned if you do, damned it you don't.
Um, yeah "they" must surely be the bullies. I mean after all they did kill 10 Israelis, and Israel killed what.. like.. only a 1000 or so Palestinians right? I mean .. clearly this makes sense since 1 Israeli life is equal to 10 Palestinian ones. Yes, they are the bullies. Nice, very nice.
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Old 01-18-2009, 10:24 PM   #88
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How about someone came to your house, kicked you out, moved you to an entirely different part of the country without compensation for the house they took from you
Someone actually did do that to my parents, but there is no negotiation to get them back. In fact, if either my parents or I returned to Cuba we would be placed in jail.
But hey, let's celebrate the Cuban revolution.

(This isn't really directed at you, Kinsa)

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what she's saying is that Israel's not gonna wait till Gaza decides to help itself.
Pretty much, or any other country that has shitty leaders. I hate to bring up Saddam Hussein, but as much as I think the assault on Iraq was completely fabricated, removing him from power freed many people, despite its consequences later.

Anyway, I think we've gone off topic or this needs to be merged with the other thread. I can only speak of what I know on the subject and it's admittedly not much.

One last thing:

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Um, yeah "they" must surely be the bullies. I mean after all they did kill 10 Israelis, and Israel killed what.. like.. only a 1000 or so Palestinians right? I mean .. clearly this makes sense since 1 Israeli life is equal to 10 Palestinian ones. Yes, they are the bullies. Nice, very nice.
I have no idea where you got this from. I have never claimed that the Palestinian people are bullies. I think Hamas is a glorified thug organization that terrorizes Israel whenever they get the chance. I think that plenty of people in the Arab world applaud these efforts thinking that it's going to further their cause. If anything, I pity the Palestinian people for not having a leader or government to legitimize their cause as anitram mentioned beforehand.
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Old 01-18-2009, 10:25 PM   #89
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Don't even go where? You have yet to actually respond to anything with anything more than non-sensical sound bites. When you actually can back up your views with some facts, please let me know.
*sigh*
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Between the time of the Israelite kingdoms and the 7th-century Muslim conquests, the Land of Israel fell under Assyrian, Babylonian, Persian, Greek, Roman, Sassanian, and Byzantine rule.[26] Jewish presence in the region dwindled after the failure of the Bar Kokhba revolt against the Roman Empire in 132 CE and the resultant large-scale expulsion of Jews. In 628/9, the Byzantine Emperor Heraclius conducted a massacre and expulsion of the Jews, at which point the Jewish population probably reached its lowest point.
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Old 01-18-2009, 10:33 PM   #90
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ok correct me if Im wrong
-Jews live in what becomes Israel
-Jews kicked out of Israel
-Palestinians live in Israel
-UN creates nation of Israel, places Jews in Israel, kicks Palestinians out
-Palestinians don't like this
-Senseless bloodshed ever since

Obviosuly there's two sides. I support Israel, but I also undertsand Palestinians plight.
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