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Old 03-20-2014, 08:10 AM   #256
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L



This would make an interesting topic as well.
Is the de-institutionalization that allows so many mentally ill people to wander our streets forgoing their medicine, counseling and other treatments often presenting as a danger to themselves as well as others... is that really compassion?
I would love to have this conversation.

The Republicans would support the increased social spending on the mentally ill, I take it?
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Old 03-20-2014, 09:06 AM   #257
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The Republican God didn't.

Ronald Reagan’s shameful legacy: Violence, the homeless, mental illness - Salon.com

Some of us are old enough to remember this.

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With President Reagan and the Republicans taking over, the Mental Health Systems Act was discarded before the ink had dried and the CMHC funds were simply block granted to the states.
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Old 03-20-2014, 11:18 AM   #258
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I would love to have this conversation.

The Republicans would support the increased social spending on the mentally ill, I take it?


what i think INDY is getting at is the NRA line of thought that silly liberals loosened up the rules and regulations regarding mental health because they all saw "cuckoo's nest" and thought that mentally ill people were just misunderstood. so that's why we have more crazy walking the streets because it's become such a high bar to have someone committed against their will since the mid-1970s. because of the liberals, concerned family members no longer have the power to get someone committed. because of the liberals, we've put too much emphasis on patient's rights and not enough on law and order, and that's why mass shootings are just a mental health issue -- it's not the guns, you see, it's the fact that liberals want crazy people walking the streets because they're people too. it's not our fault if said crazy person can easily purchase an AR-15 and mow down a bunch of 2nd graders. it's the liberal's fault for not having him locked up in the first place.

and it's a choice to kill 2nd graders, of course. no one made Adam Lanza pull that trigger but Adam Lanza.

and Ronald Reagan is a great American.
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Old 03-20-2014, 12:08 PM   #259
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So he wants insane asylums back?

To be honest, there is a valid point to be had about how some jurisdictions make it nearly impossible for the state to hold mentally ill people in certain circumstances. In the name of personal liberty we have sacrificed some amount of safety (for both the patient and the public at large), and this is worthy of looking into. I actually wrote a paper for it which was published in a legal journal back in 2008 when I was still a law school student.
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Old 03-20-2014, 01:25 PM   #260
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i'd agree there's some merit to the claim.
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Old 03-21-2014, 08:06 PM   #261
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So he wants insane asylums back?

To be honest, there is a valid point to be had about how some jurisdictions make it nearly impossible for the state to hold mentally ill people in certain circumstances. In the name of personal liberty we have sacrificed some amount of safety (for both the patient and the public at large), and this is worthy of looking into. I actually wrote a paper for it which was published in a legal journal back in 2008 when I was still a law school student.
It is a fine line isn't it? I'm sure you commented that this was done for many reasons including civil liberty issues, cost, overcrowding but also the advent of effective anti-psychotic medications that allowed many patients to lead normal lives...if they took their medication.
I'm sure you commented also on the fact that prisons have now become society's de facto public mental institutions.
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Old 03-21-2014, 08:24 PM   #262
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The Republican God didn't.

Ronald Reagan’s shameful legacy: Violence, the homeless, mental illness - Salon.com

With President Reagan and the Republicans taking over, the Mental Health Systems Act was discarded before the ink had dried and the CMHC funds were simply block granted to the states.

Some of us are old enough to remember this.
What did the states do with the money?

Are states powerless to address the problem? Is the answer to every problem a big, bloated program administered by the geniuses in Washington D.C? Why would a federal War on Mental Illness be any more effective than their War on Poverty or War on Drugs?
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Old 03-21-2014, 10:56 PM   #263
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Did you read the article?
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Old 03-21-2014, 11:22 PM   #264
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What did the states do with the money?



Are states powerless to address the problem? Is the answer to every problem a big, bloated program administered by the geniuses in Washington D.C? Why would a federal War on Mental Illness be any more effective than their War on Poverty or War on Drugs?


Real quick -- the problem isn't the people who live in DC, it's the people sent here by red state voters.
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Old 03-22-2014, 05:32 PM   #265
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Biological sex and gender identity: differences and overlaps

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Sorry but that's BS. Suicide is always a tragedy but always a choice, an act of selfishness and cowardice that leaves those behind feeling guilty and feeling helpless and to to blame.



Am I equally at blame for the suicide rate among the chronically depressed and unhappy because I'm one happy SOB?



Humans have freewill. They have an intellect in which to overcome their genes, environment or emotions. But I know, it's mean to think people are ultimately responsible for their actions.



Off topic. All I have to say about that.

INDY, this post is cruel and heartless toward anyone who has seriously considered taking their own lives for any number of reasons. Your desperate attempts to justify your bigotry has only revealed your ignorance and horrible lack of empathy. I've been ignoring your posts as of late, but this I could not ignore. This is really sad that you would stoop this low, and even hurt anyone who saw this post, particularly those you gave no kindness to
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Old 03-22-2014, 06:22 PM   #266
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It's not so much cruel as very telling how he has no idea what it is like to feel so incredibly miserable and depressed and worthless that the only way out would be to kill yourself. Also that he has no respect for people who have felt that way, because he doesn't understand it. Sounds familiar doesn't it...
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And if U2 EVER did Hawkmoon live....and the version from the Lovetown Tour, my uterus would leave my body and fling itself at Bono - for realz.
Don't worry baby, it's gonna be all right. Uncertainty can be a guiding light...
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Old 03-22-2014, 07:32 PM   #267
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It's not so much cruel as very telling how he has no idea what it is like to feel so incredibly miserable and depressed and worthless that the only way out would be to kill yourself. Also that he has no respect for people who have felt that way, because he doesn't understand it. Sounds familiar doesn't it...

True, but his post touched a nerve for me and I'm sure anyone just browsing around. Overall, it just wasn't very kind.
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Old 03-22-2014, 08:03 PM   #268
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It is pretty insulting yes. But I stopped caring about the opinions of people like him a long time ago. As will the rest of the world some day, and these cruel and respectless opinions will die a silent death.
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And if U2 EVER did Hawkmoon live....and the version from the Lovetown Tour, my uterus would leave my body and fling itself at Bono - for realz.
Don't worry baby, it's gonna be all right. Uncertainty can be a guiding light...
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Old 03-22-2014, 10:53 PM   #269
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INDY, this post is cruel and heartless toward anyone who has seriously considered taking their own lives for any number of reasons.
Good. Maybe they'll think twice about the pain they'll leave behind and think three hundred times about the finality of the act of suicide. Maybe you missed the "all suicides are tragedies" part of the post. I'm anti-suicide. All major religions are anti-suicide.

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Your desperate attempts to justify your bigotry has only revealed your ignorance and horrible lack of empathy.
Bigotry, hows that?

Those with suicidal thoughts need sympathy, compassion, treatment and love but they don't need enablers. One can have compassion and still acknowledge the truth that suicide is almost always a selfish act.

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I've been ignoring your posts as of late, but this I could not ignore. This is really sad that you would stoop this low, and even hurt anyone who saw this post, particularly those you gave no kindness to
Too bad, I've enjoyed some of our conversations and in reality I bet we agree on the central message we should be sending even if we differ (greatly) on the language.

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Old 03-22-2014, 10:58 PM   #270
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It's not so much cruel as very telling how he has no idea what it is like to feel so incredibly miserable and depressed and worthless that the only way out would be to kill yourself. Also that he has no respect for people who have felt that way, because he doesn't understand it. Sounds familiar doesn't it...
Do you think suicide has only one victim? If i could get FYM to think just a little about what happens AFTER a suicide you might understand some of my sentiments.
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