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Old 03-14-2014, 07:57 PM   #196
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Since we have now learned that "sex" and "gender" are not synonymous I'd like to know:
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Forgive me the next time I accuse people on the right of being anti-education,
Point made.

This is the same guy who said the United States was "post-racial" when Obama was elected, and genuinely thought that Nazis and Socialists were the same thing.
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Old 03-14-2014, 08:00 PM   #197
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Because only a lack of education can explain one who champions a different set of values, a different set of ideas and a different measure of progress than yours, correct?
You're championing ignoring segments of the population, not a different set of values.
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Old 03-14-2014, 08:34 PM   #198
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Point made.

This is the same guy who said the United States was "post-racial" when Obama was elected, and genuinely thought that Nazis and Socialists were the same thing.
I did? I think you are confused (or drunk) martha. But what's new about that?

For the record, I said the United States was "post-facial" when Bill Clinton was reelected and genuinely thought Obama was a Nazi zombie created in a lab from the body parts of dead, transgender socialists.
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Old 03-14-2014, 08:47 PM   #199
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Compassion as defined by whom? You? Here's an analogy.



Do you think its compassionate to misdiagnose ADHD and treat with potent stimulants millions of our youth because the medical community, parents and school officials are all too lazy to actually work with students on concentration skills, impose disciple when needed and more often than not just deal with the fact that children are full of energy? I don't. And I fail to see how adding to the confusion young people have always dealt with regarding sexuality is compassionate either.

This is seriously the worst analogy I've seen in here in a long time.

I agree with you about the overdiagnosis and overuse of stimulants, but how it can be analogous to this conversation no one will ever know.
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Old 03-14-2014, 08:53 PM   #200
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Compassion as defined by whom? You? Here's an analogy.

Do you think its compassionate to misdiagnose ADHD and treat with potent stimulants millions of our youth because the medical community, parents and school officials are all too lazy to actually work with students on concentration skills, impose disciple when needed and more often than not just deal with the fact that children are full of energy? I don't. And I fail to see how adding to the confusion young people have always dealt with regarding sexuality is compassionate either.
What does a (mis)diagnosis of ADHD have to do with compassion? Even as an analogy I have no idea what point you're trying to make.

To me the bottom line is that there are relatively few transgendered people and even fewer transsexual people. They are really a very small minority in our world and they have to exist and function in a world where they, unfortunately, do not fit in due to the views of large segments of society. Their lives are much more difficult than yours or mine, from a young age, all the way into adulthood. They have to deal with ostracism, bullying and all kinds of psychological issues that come along with being different than the "norm". Their families may not accept them, their childhood friends may not understand them, they will likely have a more difficult time in the workplace and so on. And if there are small things which we can do (and YES allowing a transgendered person to play on a girls' softball team is a small thing), is that really reason to get yourself into a tizzy and act like we're all depraved and the sky is falling? Really?
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Old 03-14-2014, 09:01 PM   #201
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People like INDY are a big reason why suicide attempt rates among young trans people (perhaps the figure isn't all that different in older trans people) are at 45-50%.

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This is the same guy who said the United States was "post-racial" when Obama was elected, and genuinely thought that Nazis and Socialists were the same thing.
Good to see he hasn't learned anything since.
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Old 03-14-2014, 09:11 PM   #202
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Transgender athlete sues CrossFit for banning her from female contest - CNN.com



So who's right? Does Chloie Jonsson's right to sexual expression in California trump a private company's right to set standards for competition and eligibility for all competitors?
Once again with the sports. So many thanks to anitram in the last post for recognizing that in the scope of human existence, sports are rather small. But I think the way this argument always sticks on sports quietly outlines what's really at stake in these arguments: the high value placed on masculine-coded values like competition, toughness, raw physical power, the domination of ranking winners and losers, and hierarchy within and between genders that it creates. Sport is the church in which we worship these values, and gender trangression is a fundamental blasphemy of them.
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Old 03-14-2014, 10:51 PM   #203
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Because only a lack of education can explain one who champions a different set of values, a different set of ideas and a different measure of progress than yours, correct?



You do absolutely demonstrate a lack of knowledge on this subject.
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Old 03-14-2014, 11:33 PM   #204
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INDY, I get the impression that you are tying to imply that excessive compassion towards transgendered people is likely to create incentives for people to falsely believe that they are transgendered, leading to a whole host of problems for society. In other words, that it will lead to false positives, to misdiagnoses of transgenderedness. Is that correct?

While I disagree with such sentiment, incidentally, I can't help but think of one of my best friends, who (by his own admission) is not transgendered, but went through a phase of about three months feeling very strongly that he was. He, however, has an overwhelming tendency to jump from phase to phase.
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Old 03-14-2014, 11:40 PM   #205
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And for every one child that jumps from phase to phase because of a more accepting society, dozens and dozens more won't kill themselves because someone was kind and told them they had a place in society as well.
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Old 03-14-2014, 11:45 PM   #206
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And for every one child that jumps from phase to phase because of a more accepting society, dozens and dozens more won't kill themselves because someone was kind and told them they had a place in society as well.
Yes, absolutely.
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Old 03-15-2014, 12:22 AM   #207
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I did? I think you are confused (or drunk) martha. But what's new about that?

For the record, I said the United States was "post-facial" when Bill Clinton was reelected and genuinely thought Obama was a Nazi zombie created in a lab from the body parts of dead, transgender socialists.
Ha! You DON'T have me on ignore.
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Old 03-15-2014, 12:33 AM   #208
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I did? I think you are confused (or drunk) martha. But what's new about that?
Dammit. You're right. You equated fascism and socialism.

Socialism = Fascism?


 
And I posted my original post before I had a Pacifico with my carne asada tacos and guacamole.
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Old 03-15-2014, 12:46 AM   #209
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Transgender athlete sues CrossFit for banning her from female contest - CNN.com

So who's right? Does Chloie Jonsson's right to sexual expression in California trump a private company's right to set standards for competition and eligibility for all competitors?
Now, this, I find to be a whole different situation from the softball one. If she is post-op and taking hormones, wouldn't that no longer effect her as being, biologically, stronger than any other woman? I honestly don't know, the science behind that isn't something I've studied much, outside of basic bio classes in college.
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Old 03-15-2014, 10:18 AM   #210
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According to the article, she's had surgery and is on post op female hormone treatment. So yes, physically she probably won't have the male advantage anymore since those are mainly powered by testosterone. Big part of the hormone treatment is testosterone blockers and the regular female hormons. Asides from this, she's legally recognized as a woman. So yes, in this case this woman's rights should win. You can argue all you want but technically she's a woman now so she should be allowed to enter female sports competitions.
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