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Old 06-21-2011, 01:25 PM   #1
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Bernie Taupin on religion

Just stumbled onto this. Thought-provoking.

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Bernie Taupin :: Blog

02.23.2010
The R Word

Now let’s see here, there’s down time and then there’s time to get down, two independently differing situations, one which affords you the opportunity to execute the other. Currently I find myself locked in the former mode while musical landscapes are painted in absentia. So while the architects create and the studio gnomes scurry around patching wires and fiddling with gizmos of varying wonderment I’ll take the opportunity to travel a road strewn with sourpusses, misinformation, unnecessary damming, illogical dissection and quiet honestly because I’m a tad fed up. I’m talking about religion.

A single word, which on the human highway and in social circles of indiscriminate numbers, has taken on a mantle of averted eyes, raised hackles and much ringing of hands. Let’s take the high ground here and stand for those that inhabit the middle ground.

I’m more than a little perplexed. Why so many expend such sweat and precious breath to fluidize and demonize Christianity is simply quite beyond me. Surely there are infinitely more negative and disruptive forces at work in the universe than something that gives hope and comfort, let alone refuge, aid and medical assistance to countless millions. I imagine it’s pretty much the same old bag of rattling bones, the detractors and stone throwers bitch and whine while negativity and selfishness runs rampant in their insular worlds.

....
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Old 06-21-2011, 01:32 PM   #2
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Frankly, this was so ridiculous that I didn't feel like following the link:

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I imagine it’s pretty much the same old bag of rattling bones, the detractors and stone throwers bitch and whine while negativity and selfishness runs rampant in their insular worlds.
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Old 06-21-2011, 01:36 PM   #3
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I'm always intrigued by people who are known more by what they hate than what they love. Whether they don't have a religion or do.

You should really read the rest of it. I don't agree with everything he says (I know some charitable atheists), but I personally appreciated much of his sentiment.
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Old 06-21-2011, 06:57 PM   #4
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BBC NEWS | UK | Sir Elton: Ban organised religion

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Nov 2006
Sir Elton: Ban organised religion

Sir Elton John has said he would like to see all organised religion banned and accused it of trying to "turn hatred towards gay people".
Organised religion lacked compassion and turned people into "hateful lemmings", he told the Observer.
OK, they balance each other. So.. where to now St. Peter?
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Old 06-21-2011, 10:43 PM   #5
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my issue with religion, or religious people, is that many claim knowledge of absolute truth and to know what's best for everyone. it's Gandhi's whole, "i like your Christ, don't like your Christians" that is more the source of people's frustration with Christianity -- that, and the political influence wielded by Christian hate groups in the early years of the Bush administration.

it's sad that this outweighs the good work done by many Christian charity groups.
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Old 06-22-2011, 02:56 AM   #6
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my issue with religion, or religious people, is that many claim knowledge of absolute truth and to know what's best for everyone.
I don't have a problem with truth claims. All religions have those. At the same time, Jesus' teachings were always meant to be counter-cultural, not the dominant order of the day.

You're dead-on in your assessment of Christian groups who seem only bent on eliminating what they hate.

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it's sad that this outweighs the good work done by many Christian charity groups.
This.
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Old 06-22-2011, 12:46 PM   #7
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I don't have a problem with truth claims. All religions have those.


there are different degrees of truth, though. i agree, all religions posit that they are at least correct, but i think claims of a monopoly on truth do vary a bit (Buddhism isn't terribly imperialistic about its beliefs as compared to, say, Islam and Christianity).

and i think there's also a difference between a wider truth -- "i believe Jesus is the son of God" -- vs. highly specific truths -- "i know exactly what God wants me to do with these here genitals of mine" -- making some truths more valuable than others. i'm much more comfortable with faith than i am with certitude, and that might be the difference.
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Old 06-22-2011, 01:50 PM   #8
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bernie taupin also wrote "we built this city on rock and roll"


take that as you will.
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Old 06-22-2011, 02:53 PM   #9
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i think there's also a difference between a wider truth -- "i believe Jesus is the son of God" -- vs. highly specific truths -- "i know exactly what God wants me to do with these here genitals of mine" -- making some truths more valuable than others.
All worldviews filtered by religion are informed by the extent to which people subscribe to that religion. Some people are content with faith in the abstract, keeping it at arms' length; others walk closely with it but still question it; still others are so deeply bathed in it that they lose all perspective on it.

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i'm much more comfortable with faith than i am with certitude, and that might be the difference.
You've talked about this before, and I appreciate your perspective. At the same time, some things I know. I have no doubt, for example, that God exists. That I know -- too many experiences for me to believe otherwise. Other things I am still learning to believe. Life is a journey of faith (and faith, I suppose, is a journey of life).

Or, as Eugene Peterson put it in his paraphrase of Hebrews 11:1, "Faith ... gives us assurance about things we cannot see."
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Old 06-22-2011, 03:14 PM   #10
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bernie taupin also wrote "we built this city on rock and roll"


take that as you will.
I did not know that.
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Old 06-22-2011, 03:24 PM   #11
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bernie taupin also wrote "we built this city on rock and roll"


take that as you will.
Taupin needs to repent for this.

For the record, I agree with Nathan: while I appreciate Taupin's sentiments, it's a shame that he made so many generalizations about atheists in the process.
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Old 06-22-2011, 09:19 PM   #12
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(Buddhism isn't terribly imperialistic about its beliefs as compared to, say, Islam and Christianity).
In it's beliefs, perhaps, but in practice not necessarily. I've known some extremely intolerant Buddhists. For example, the grandmother of one of my students destroyed his Bible when she found he had one in the house. I think she'd disown her grandkids if they ever became Christians.

It's funny how intolerance looks the same regardless of the religion (or lack thereof) of the intolerant one.
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Old 06-23-2011, 03:15 PM   #13
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In it's beliefs, perhaps, but in practice not necessarily. I've known some extremely intolerant Buddhists. For example, the grandmother of one of my students destroyed his Bible when she found he had one in the house. I think she'd disown her grandkids if they ever became Christians.

It's funny how intolerance looks the same regardless of the religion (or lack thereof) of the intolerant one.

well, sure, on an individual level. but i don't know of any Buddhists who have marched into other countries and tried to convert people, or of wars fought in Buddhisms name.

i could also be completely wrong about this.
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Old 06-23-2011, 05:16 PM   #14
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well, sure, on an individual level. but i don't know of any Buddhists who have marched into other countries and tried to convert people, or of wars fought in Buddhisms name.

i could also be completely wrong about this.
This book sounds like an interesting exploration of the subject.

Oxford University Press: Buddhist Warfare: Michael Jerryson

This one too:

http://www.amazon.com/Zen-at-War-Dai.../dp/0834804050
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Old 06-23-2011, 06:33 PM   #15
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well, sure, on an individual level. but i don't know of any Buddhists who have marched into other countries and tried to convert people, or of wars fought in Buddhisms name.

i could also be completely wrong about this.
My personal opinion is that ANY time ANY religion gets mixed up with affairs of state you're likely to have people marching inot other other countries, forced conversions, wars fought in the name of said religion.

In a way the theology is irrelevent--human nature is the same once power and wealth come into play.
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