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Old 02-03-2011, 07:32 PM   #586
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at what point does this become trolling exactly?
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Old 02-03-2011, 07:47 PM   #587
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We're getting there.
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Old 02-03-2011, 07:56 PM   #588
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at what point does this become trolling exactly?
When was the first Sunday Dispatch?
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Old 02-03-2011, 08:11 PM   #589
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at what point does this become trolling exactly?


I'm a bit confused about trolling.

Can you explain in simple terms?
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Old 02-03-2011, 08:12 PM   #590
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so what is trolling - Xbox 360 & Xbox Forums

reading is fun
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Old 02-03-2011, 08:26 PM   #591
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The second comment from the link you posted:

"Basically, a troll is someone who says something negative just to stir the pot and get attention."


Can we get back to discussing the topic?


Make your point, post a link.
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Old 02-03-2011, 08:37 PM   #592
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Make your point, post a link.
Diemen asked the following questions on the previous page (I'm probably wasting my time here):

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You're a teacher, right? Say you have a student who writes a report arguing that the Earth is flat. The only sources he uses are anonymous blogs, he offers no corroborating evidence from established experts and scientific studies, and he doesn't even attempt to address evidence that contradicts his position.

Would you be satisfied with his report?
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Just curious, iron horse - what do you make of the fact that the overwhelming majority of scientists agree that climate change is real and can back it up with rigorously tested and independently verifiable data?
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Could you please explain why you think that record snows indicate a fault in the argument for global warming? Is your thinking that if global warming is real, then our winters would be milder?
I posted this lecture, if you want an interesting link to comment on:
Richard B. Alley lecture
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Old 02-03-2011, 09:06 PM   #593
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Ask me a question on global warming or climate change.

I will try to answer.
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Originally Posted by Diemen View Post
These haven't been answered yet:

And that's just the last two pages.
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Can we get back to discussing the topic?
But you're not actually discussing anything. You just post a link and disappear from the conversation. That's not a discussion, that's a drive-by posting.

You said you would try to answer our questions of you (notice our questions were for you, not some random online website). I replied with several questions that had already been standing in this thread. Others have questions for you as well. Do you plan on answering them at any point?
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Old 02-05-2011, 06:49 AM   #594
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That documentary on the radical left broadcaster, the BBC on Wednesday night was completely one sided.

He didn't say how many camera crews the BBC sent to Chile to film the mine rescue and the fact that out of the broadcasters the BBC probably has the biggest carbon footprint of all.

He didn't say that these computer models that the green lobby use not only (according to them) pollute the atmosphere with carbon and how a computer program does what humans input into it, so these models mean nothing.

He didn't say anything about the East Anglican University's leaked emails requesting researchers to exaggerate the affects of man on the environment.

The presenter focused on only one controversial journalist, however he didn't say that there are just as many scientists who dispute man-made global warming.

He said that one of the global warming sceptic groups were founded by Enron. But he didn't say that there are environmental groups that also funded by certain companies that are pushing their own agenda.

He said that he is willing to give up a little bit of freedom in order to save the planet. But he didn't say that these modern day red communists want us all to most of our electrical output to the point of reversing back to the stone age. They want to raise fuel costs even more than they have risen all ready. Last year almost 500 elderly people died frozen to death in their own home because of the cost of puting on a heater in Britain alone. If the green brigade have their pown way even more will die each year. They are putting an unproven theory above people's lives. You look it that way some of these people are quite evil!

In the end he said that the pro global warming scientists argued that carbon is not the main problem with global warming. He didn't say that this is the whole crutch of their argument, that carbon is the main cause of global warming according to their theory.

And I'd like to know what else he didn't say!
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Old 02-05-2011, 09:20 AM   #595
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And I'd like to know what else he didn't say!
Rather than go point by point on your response, I'd like to ask you this: Why do you think the overwhelming majority of scientists believe that climate change is real?
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Old 02-05-2011, 09:33 AM   #596
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That documentary on the radical left broadcaster, the BBC on Wednesday night was completely one sided.

He didn't say how many camera crews the BBC sent to Chile to film the mine rescue and the fact that out of the broadcasters the BBC probably has the biggest carbon footprint of all.
It probably has a large carbon footprint, indeed. That doesn't change the science or the problem, it simply means that we are far from the solution.

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He didn't say that these computer models that the green lobby use not only (according to them) pollute the atmosphere with carbon
Almost every activity, in some way or another, pollutes.

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and how a computer program does what humans input into it, so these models mean nothing.
Models are limited by our understanding of science, that is true. But models help us understand phenomena that require large-scale computations - they are indeed quite useful. People must be careful when interpreting the results, but they provide valuable information. Computer models are used on a daily basis, from electricity dispatch models to weather forecasts. You unknowingly use them on a daily basis.

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He didn't say anything about the East Anglican University's leaked emails requesting researchers to exaggerate the affects of man on the environment.
An independent inquiry into these emails proved that there was no wrong doing or falsification in the work. This scandal was a carefully timed attempt (prior to Copenhagen) to cast doubts on the integrity of scientists by taking a few emails out of context. Nothing wrong was going on.

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The presenter focused on only one controversial journalist, however he didn't say that there are just as many scientists who dispute man-made global warming.
That is simply not true.

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He said that one of the global warming sceptic groups were founded by Enron. But he didn't say that there are environmental groups that also funded by certain companies that are pushing their own agenda.
Fair enough. There are extremists on both sides of this issue, and there are people who would benefit from action or inaction on this issue. This is inevitable, and is present in every issue. But here again, you have to be careful to ignore demagogues and people who have a particularly large stake in the economic ramifications of an issue.

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He said that he is willing to give up a little bit of freedom in order to save the planet.
This is hyperbolic. The planet will be just fine.

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But he didn't say that these modern day red communists want us all to most of our electrical output to the point of reversing back to the stone age. They want to raise fuel costs even more than they have risen all ready. Last year almost 500 elderly people died frozen to death in their own home because of the cost of puting on a heater in Britain alone. If the green brigade have their pown way even more will die each year. They are putting an unproven theory above people's lives. You look it that way some of these people are quite evil!
You have to stop reading into all the propaganda. There is propaganda from extreme environmentalists (unrealistic expectations about energy use and demand), just like there is propaganda from extreme deniers (climate change is a socialist hoax, clean technologies are evil). Try to find the middle ground, and discuss pragmatic solutions to a problem that is very real.
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Old 02-05-2011, 10:48 AM   #597
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Whether you want to believe in global climate change or not, how about the simple and factual thought that if we use less coal, there will be less smog in the air and mercury in the water (and in the fish that we then can't eat), and that fewer children will develop asthma and die from it?

Understanding of the Greenhouse Effect has nothing to do with wanting children to have healthy lungs. Can we agree on that? Less coal burning is better for everyone's immediate health.
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Old 02-05-2011, 10:45 PM   #598
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Whether you want to believe in global climate change or not, how about the simple and factual thought that if we use less coal, there will be less smog in the air and mercury in the water (and in the fish that we then can't eat), and that fewer children will develop asthma and die from it?

Understanding of the Greenhouse Effect has nothing to do with wanting children to have healthy lungs. Can we agree on that? Less coal burning is better for everyone's immediate health.

I agree.
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Old 02-06-2011, 11:27 AM   #599
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There is a wide array of technologies that can lead to reductions in GHG emissions, including retirement of coal-fired units. Some solutions are cheaper than others. I find this (old) figure from McKinsey & Company interesting as a starting point for discussion:



Of particular interest: some mitigation strategies - often rooted in efficiency improvement and conservation - actually yield negative costs, i.e. savings. Mitigation will gain traction as more and more businesses understand that, in many cases, there is a great opportunity to reduce their environmental footprint while increasing their profitability.
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Old 02-07-2011, 08:07 PM   #600
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Whether you want to believe in global climate change or not, how about the simple and factual thought that if we use less coal, there will be less smog in the air and mercury in the water (and in the fish that we then can't eat), and that fewer children will develop asthma and die from it?

Understanding of the Greenhouse Effect has nothing to do with wanting children to have healthy lungs. Can we agree on that? Less coal burning is better for everyone's immediate health.

I can.

I'm not against stewardship of the earth. The Bible teaches that.
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