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Old 02-14-2010, 04:51 AM   #511
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Copenhagen is a wonderful city. bountiful public transport, an attractive, bike-riding populace. i think you'd love it, INDY.
I think he would settle in Christiania and never want to move again.
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Old 02-14-2010, 12:43 PM   #512
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Climategate U-turn: Astonishment as scientist at centre of global warming email row admits data not well organised | Mail Online

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Professor Jones also conceded the possibility that the world was warmer in medieval times than now – suggesting global warming may not be a man-made phenomenon.

And he said that for the past 15 years there has been no ‘statistically significant’ warming.

The admissions will be seized on by sceptics as fresh evidence that there are serious flaws at the heart of the science of climate change and the orthodoxy that recent rises in temperature are largely man-made.
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Old 02-14-2010, 01:12 PM   #513
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Phil Jones interview:

BBC News - Q&A: Professor Phil Jones

BBC News - 'Climategate' expert Jones says data not well organised

Steve McIntyre comments colored in:

Phil Jones Interview Climate Audit
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Old 02-14-2010, 01:18 PM   #514
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bountiful public transport, an attractive, bike-riding populace. i think you'd love it, INDY.
I probably would love it as that actually describes my hometown pretty well. In fact they even made a big-time-Hollywood movie about a bike race that takes place here every April.
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Old 02-14-2010, 01:33 PM   #515
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I probably would love it as that actually describes my hometown pretty well. In fact they even made a big-time-Hollywood movie about a bike race that takes place here every April.


i'm surprised you tolerated a movie about such a decadent, Euro-centric sport that glamorizes an american who consciously rejects his heritage in favor of an italian/socialist identity.

i do know, however, that Bloomington is renowned for it's biking culture. would that that spirit make it's way to indianapolis.
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Old 02-14-2010, 09:43 PM   #516
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...organised.html
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Old 02-15-2010, 10:16 AM   #517
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Why not refer to the actual Q&A sessions instead?

BBC News - Q&A: Professor Phil Jones

BBC News - 'Climategate' expert Jones says data not well organised

As usual, the actual comments by Jones are a lot more nuanced and hardly a U-turn on anything.
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Old 02-15-2010, 10:37 AM   #518
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Why not refer to the actual Q&A sessions instead?

BBC News - Q&A: Professor Phil Jones

BBC News - 'Climategate' expert Jones says data not well organised

As usual, the actual comments by Jones are a lot more nuanced and hardly a U-turn on anything.
He admitted that the science is not settled. Maybe that's not big for you but it is for me, and this is Phil Jones who's obviously going to try and defend himself despite "losing" important documents we need to verify his claims. Nobody on this board would cut Enron this kind of slack.
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Old 02-15-2010, 10:46 AM   #519
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Nobody's cutting Jones any slack, not even himself if you read the q&a. Do take into consideration that Jones said we're still dealing with a warming trend which can't be explained by natural processes. Hardly a U-turn.
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Old 02-15-2010, 11:20 AM   #520
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Nobody's cutting Jones any slack, not even himself if you read the q&a. Do take into consideration that Jones said we're still dealing with a warming trend which can't be explained by natural processes. Hardly a U-turn.
People who defended the MWP were ridiculed because of the lack of nuance IPCC showed. Where was this nuance when Al Gore claimed there was a consensus? It would have been nice to hear this in 2005:

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N - When scientists say "the debate on climate change is over", what exactly do they mean - and what don't they mean?

It would be supposition on my behalf to know whether all scientists who say the debate is over are saying that for the same reason. I don't believe the vast majority of climate scientists think this. This is not my view. There is still much that needs to be undertaken to reduce uncertainties, not just for the future, but for the instrumental (and especially the palaeoclimatic) past as well.
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D - Do you agree that natural influences could have contributed significantly to the global warming observed from 1975-1998, and, if so, please could you specify each natural influence and express its radiative forcing over the period in Watts per square metre.

This area is slightly outside my area of expertise. When considering changes over this period we need to consider all possible factors (so human and natural influences as well as natural internal variability of the climate system). Natural influences (from volcanoes and the Sun) over this period could have contributed to the change over this period. Volcanic influences from the two large eruptions (El Chichon in 1982 and Pinatubo in 1991) would exert a negative influence. Solar influence was about flat over this period. Combining only these two natural influences, therefore, we might have expected some cooling over this period.
When it comes to natural processes even deep within the global warming camp they are finding some natural causes:

Water vapour caused one-third of global warming in 1990s, study reveals | Environment | The Guardian

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"These findings show that stratospheric water vapour represents an important driver of decadal global surface climate change," the scientists say. They say it should lead to a "closer examination of the representation of stratospheric water vapour changes in climate models".

Solomon said it was not clear why the water vapour levels had swung up and down, but suggested it could be down to changes in sea surface temperature, which drives convection currents and can move air around in the high atmosphere.

She said it was not clear if the water vapour decrease after 2000 reflects a natural shift, or if it was a consequence of a warming world. If the latter is true, then more warming could see greater decreases in water vapour, acting as a negative feedback to apply the brakes on future temperature rise.
It's good that skeptics are putting the believers feet to the fire. They are upholding a public service:

Express.co.uk - Home of the Daily and Sunday Express | UK News :: �8bn BBC eco-bias

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The £8billion pension fund is likely to come under close scrutiny over its commitment to promote a low-carbon economy while struggling to reverse an estimated £2billion deficit.

Concerns are growing that BBC journalists and their bosses regard disputed scientific theory that climate change is caused by mankind as “mainstream” while huge sums of employees’ money is invested in companies whose success depends on the theory being widely accepted.
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Old 02-15-2010, 12:06 PM   #521
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Those poor scientists at the Climate Research Unit at the University of East Anglia have really got a job ahead of them in that case. Micheal Mann's "trick" to hide the decline of global temps may not cut it any more.
I'll throw a brick through his window for you.

As an aside, the university cleared him on most of the allegations.
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Old 02-15-2010, 12:14 PM   #522
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I'll throw a brick through his window for you.

As an aside, the university cleared him on most of the allegations.
Which is also a controversy since Penn state did the review of itself.

Rally for Academic Integrity | Pennsylvania State University - Main Campus
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Old 02-15-2010, 02:02 PM   #523
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As hoaxes go,
I guess we will have to put 'global warming' up there with the 'shroud of Turin'.
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Old 02-15-2010, 02:27 PM   #524
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As hoaxes go,
I guess we will have to put 'global warming' up there with the 'shroud of Turin'.
It certainly hurts climate science but hopefully they will get their feet back and actually learn about natural climate variability because climate does matter to us and using money to adapt to climate as oppose to change it makes more sense.

Also energy security should be put separate from AGW so we don't rush to close down coal putting people out of work without viable alternatives.
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Old 02-15-2010, 05:56 PM   #525
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Which is also a controversy since Penn state did the review of itself.

Rally for Academic Integrity | Pennsylvania State University - Main Campus
Which I'm aware of, but I still think it's just deniers in a frenzy over the fact that Michael Mann isn't, in fact, Satan. Trust me, I got approached by of the petitioners.
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