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Old 11-23-2009, 01:34 PM   #151
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I agree...

Scary
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Old 11-23-2009, 03:45 PM   #152
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I think that the best scientists are ones that do not have a predetermined "conclusion" already implanted in their minds...

However, even if man-made climate change is proven to be a myth - that doesn't mean we should abandon the pursuit of alternative energy and a clean environment. We are at a point in history as important as the Industrial Revolution. I would personally like to be a part of the generation that "turned the tide" on the old ways of energy and production. In the end, I think we find it is not only more profitable, but also sustainable.
I agree we shouldn't go too far and assume all pollution is okay but without good transparent science yelling doom and gloom will train the public to ignore potential real threats to the environment. Transparency could also go against skeptics if their science sucks.

At least these guys agree to an investigation:

YouTube - Fox News: Calls for Investigation of Climategate Grow

What a lot of skeptics complain about is in this report:

http://www.climateaudit.org/pdf/othe...man_Report.pdf

Quote:
7. CONCLUSIONS AND RECOMMENDATIONS

Conclusion 1. The politicization of academic scholarly work leads to confusing public debates. Scholarly papers published in peer reviewed journals are considered the archival record of research. There is usually no requirement to archive supplemental material such as code and data. Consequently, the supplementary material for academic work is often poorly documented and archived and is not sufficiently robust to withstand intense public debate. In the present example there was too much reliance on peer review, which seemed not to be sufficiently independent.

Recommendation 1. Especially when massive amounts of public monies and human lives are at stake, academic work should have a more intense level of scrutiny and review. It is especially the case that authors of policy-related documents like the IPCC report, Climate Change 2001: The Scientific Basis, should not be the same people as those that constructed the academic papers.

Conclusion 2. Sharing of research materials, data, and results is haphazard and often grudgingly done. We were especially struck by Dr. Mann’s insistence that the code he developed was his intellectual property and that he could legally hold it personally without disclosing it to peers. When code and data are not shared and methodology is not fully disclosed, peers do not have the ability to replicate the work and thus independent verification is impossible.

Recommendation 2. We believe that federally funded research agencies should develop a more comprehensive and concise policy on disclosure. All of us writing this report have been federally funded. Our experience with funding agencies has been that they do not in general articulate clear guidelines to the investigators as to what must be disclosed. Federally funded work including code should be made available to other researchers upon reasonable request, especially if the intellectual property has no commercial value. Some
consideration should be granted to data collectors to have exclusive use of their data for one or two years, prior to publication. But data collected under federal support should be made publicly available. (As federal agencies such as NASA do routinely.)

Conclusion 3. As statisticians, we were struck by the isolation of communities such as the paleoclimate community that rely heavily on statistical methods, yet do not seem to be interacting with the mainstream statistical community. The public policy implications of this debate are financially staggering and yet apparently no independent statistical expertise was sought or used.

Recommendation 3. With clinical trials for drugs and devices to be approved for human use by the FDA, review and consultation with statisticians is expected. Indeed, it is standard practice to include statisticians in the application-for-approval process. We judge this to be a good policy when public health and also when substantial amounts of monies are involved, for example, when there are major policy decisions to be made based on statistical assessments. In such cases, evaluation by statisticians should be
standard practice. This evaluation phase should be a mandatory part of all grant applications and funded accordingly.

Conclusion 4. While the paleoclimate reconstruction has gathered much publicity because it reinforces a policy agenda, it does not provide insight and understanding of the physical mechanisms of climate change except to the extent that tree ring, ice cores and such give physical evidence such as the prevalence of green-house gases. What is needed is deeper understanding of the physical mechanisms of climate change.

Recommendation 4. Emphasis should be placed on the Federal funding of research related to fundamental understanding of the mechanisms of climate change. Funding should focus on interdisciplinary teams and avoid narrowly focused discipline research.
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Old 11-23-2009, 04:30 PM   #153
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Bit suspect to be preaching about ethics to the vast majority of scientists who support the case for anthropogenic climate change if the only way these PRIVATE EMAILS became public was presumably as a direct result of a crime.
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Old 11-23-2009, 08:06 PM   #154
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Bit suspect to be preaching about ethics to the vast majority of scientists who support the case for anthropogenic climate change if the only way these PRIVATE EMAILS became public was presumably as a direct result of a crime.
Well we don't know if it's a hacker or a whistleblower so it depends on what you mean by ethics. One is unethical and one is not. I'm sure when it comes to George Bush, Sarah Palin, Enron, Linda Tripp, and Goldman Sachs many people wouldn't care about stolen emails if it unearthed taxpayer waste. People also don't seem to care to release interrogation techniques to the world (including terrorists) to unearth what they find illegal. As soon as shareholders and taxpayers are involved it should be expected that some kind of audit should occur, especially when allegedly important documents are being deleted.

Global warming rigged? Here's the email I'd need to see | George Monbiot | Comment is free | The Guardian

Of all people George Monbiot is feeling some damage but not quite enough damage for him. He's set to debate Lomborg and Lawson with fellow Canadian Green Party leader Elizabeth May on December 1st.

The Debates | Munk Debates

I wonder how that will work after this:

Quote:
It's no use pretending this isn't a major blow. The emails extracted by a hacker from the climatic research unit at the University of East Anglia could scarcely be more damaging. I am now convinced that they are genuine, and I'm dismayed and deeply shaken by them.

Yes, the messages were obtained illegally. Yes, all of us say things in emails that would be excruciating if made public. Yes, some of the comments have been taken out of context. But there are some messages that require no spin to make them look bad. There appears to be evidence here of attempts to prevent scientific data from being released, and even to destroy material that was subject to a freedom of information request.

Worse still, some of the emails suggest efforts to prevent the publication of work by climate sceptics, or to keep it out of a report by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change. I believe that the head of the unit, Phil Jones, should now resign. Some of the data discussed in the emails should be re-analysed.
Then he continues on to say that a bigger conspiracy needs to be unearthed to shake his beliefs. Of course a lot of this "us and them" attitude would be reduced if data was more freely exchanged. Hopefully that will be the outcome of this scandal. Yes heads should roll but science has to continue on with better transparency (unless it is a commercial secret or military patent) which in this case does not apply as it is considered a public health issue (according to the EPA).
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Old 11-24-2009, 03:07 PM   #155
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Figured this was as good a place as any to post this video. I'm not trying to make a statement, just thought it was interesting

YouTube - Polar Bear
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Old 11-24-2009, 03:34 PM   #156
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Figured this was as good a place as any to post this video. I'm not trying to make a statement, just thought it was interesting

YouTube - Polar Bear
While I agree with the information - I disagree with the tactic. I'm not a big fan of arguments that appeal to emotion. It usually leads to some sort of mob mentality (from the Tea Bag rallies to "Peace" marches)
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Old 11-24-2009, 03:36 PM   #157
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While I agree with the information - I disagree with the tactic. I'm not a big fan of arguments that appeal to emotion. It usually leads to some sort of mob mentality (from the Tea Bag rallies to "Peace" marches)
Ya, I agree. Thats why I figured I should put the personal disclaimer before the post. I also think that the cg could've been a little better too
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Old 11-24-2009, 05:10 PM   #158
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Video - Inhofe to Boxer - We Won, You Lost, Now Get a Life! - Congress
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Old 11-25-2009, 12:25 PM   #159
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It must be a b*tch when he's right.
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Old 11-25-2009, 12:33 PM   #160
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YouTube - Ed Begley, Jr. Loses Control Over ClimateGate

PEER REVIEW! PEER REVIEW! PEER REVIEW!

More like BUDDY REVIEW.
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Old 11-25-2009, 12:57 PM   #161
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Actually Ed didn't look bad in this.
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Old 11-25-2009, 01:06 PM   #162
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It must be a b*tch when he's right.
Please, this bitch wouldn't know science if it bit him on the ass. His past on air "expert on global warming myth" ended up being a hack, the guy wan't even a scientist.
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Old 11-25-2009, 01:10 PM   #163
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PEER REVIEW! PEER REVIEW! PEER REVIEW!

More like BUDDY REVIEW.


So Oscar, you believe this all a hoax like your buddy Rush, in your theory what year do you think the scientific community of the world met in order to put together this conspiracy? Do you think they met on some distant island? And do you think it's just because the majority of scientist are socialist, and this was the best way to create a socialist utopia?
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Old 11-25-2009, 02:16 PM   #164
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It's become evident that scientists are manipulating the numbers and politics have now entered into the research of climate change and or global warming.

It's a shame when science is no longer science.

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Old 11-25-2009, 02:50 PM   #165
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It's become evident that scientists are manipulating the numbers and politics have now entered into the research of climate change and or global warming.
Evident, huh? How is it "evident"?

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It's a shame when science is no longer science.
Oh please, don't pretend like you EVER respected science.
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