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Old 07-31-2009, 11:59 AM   #61
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his version was much more hate filled.
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Old 07-31-2009, 12:01 PM   #62
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I do think that a person who hates/doesn't want kids AND hates/doesn't want pets is probably not a very nice person. At least this has been my experience.
I like how "hates" and "doesn't want" are the same thing. And by like I mean I find it ridiculous.

I know that Martha doesn't want kids b/c she has said so before but I also know she is a teacher. What a kid-hater she must be! I guess I'll err on the side of a "kid hater" as opposed to someone who doesn't know what the eff they're talking about...
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Old 07-31-2009, 01:59 PM   #63
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I will never understand how someone can determine whether someone else is selfish based solely on whether or not they want to have children (or how many they want or how they want to have them).
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Old 07-31-2009, 02:26 PM   #64
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i like the process of making babies, but dont like the babies themselves.
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Old 07-31-2009, 02:40 PM   #65
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what i think is best is to have kids, and then spend their lives first resenting them, because pregnancy forced you to put your dreams and ambitions on hold, and then you should take your dreams and foist them on your child and then berate them whenever they fail to live up to said shattered dreams in order to instill a perpetual feeling of worthlessness and inadequacy no matter what they might happen to achieve.

that's what's kept the middle class striving for years!
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Old 07-31-2009, 03:17 PM   #66
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what i think is best is to have kids, and then spend their lives first resenting them, because pregnancy forced you to put your dreams and ambitions on hold, and then you should take your dreams and foist them on your child and then berate them whenever they fail to live up to said shattered dreams in order to instill a perpetual feeling of worthlessness and inadequacy no matter what they might happen to achieve.

that's what's kept the middle class striving for years!
Way to make a sweeping generalization there, Irvine.

I was going to comment on this thread, but then I realized it's descended into incomprehensibility, and that there are ridiculous generalizations on both sides, so I'm going to leave well enough alone.
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Old 07-31-2009, 03:22 PM   #67
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what i think is best is to have kids, and then spend their lives first resenting them, because pregnancy forced you to put your dreams and ambitions on hold, and then you should take your dreams and foist them on your child and then berate them whenever they fail to live up to said shattered dreams in order to instill a perpetual feeling of worthlessness and inadequacy no matter what they might happen to achieve.

that's what's kept the middle class striving for years!
I'm totally on board with that. When did that ever go wro-oh wait....




In all seriousness, I will never understand the obsession in recent years with writing articles/blogging/debating etc. people's reproductive choices. If people want to have a child(ren) and they have the financial, physical, emotional, and mental stability and desire to do so, they should. If they choose not to have a child(ren) for any reason, that's their business as well. It should be a non-issue.
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Old 07-31-2009, 03:35 PM   #68
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Way to make a sweeping generalization there, Irvine.

I was going to comment on this thread, but then I realized it's descended into incomprehensibility, and that there are ridiculous generalizations on both sides, so I'm going to leave well enough alone.


lighten up, nathan.
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Old 07-31-2009, 03:52 PM   #69
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I thought it was pretty clear that Irvine was jokingly playing off financeguy's parenting-as-class-warfare advocacy.

But yes, there was a lot of outright ridiculousness in the last couple pages.
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Old 07-31-2009, 03:57 PM   #70
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But yes, there was a lot of outright ridiculousness in the last couple pages.
On the other hand, we did get a lovely example of exactly the type of comments several of the posters had mentioned in the first couple of pages.
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Old 07-31-2009, 04:00 PM   #71
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I'm not sure those were quite the kinds of comments anyone had in mind actually. But they were ugly all right.
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Old 07-31-2009, 05:01 PM   #72
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That is exactly what I was doing, though his version was much more hate filled. I don't care, really, I just don't like to see anyone bashed for loving. And NO ONE who spends as much money as parents do on their kids are selfish, sorry. It's like calling suicide bombers 'cowards.' Sure takes a lot of guts to know you're going to die detonate the bomb anyway. I don't like or respect them or what they did, but don't call them 'cowards.' I really, really do think it's stupid of anyone to call anyone 'selfish' for wanting or not wanting a kid.
I don't think anyone is saying all parents are selfish. I think the point was not everyone becomes a parent for 100 percent alturistic reasons. Not every parent out there is a saint. If that were true, there wouldn't be any such thing as child abuse/neglect.
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Old 07-31-2009, 06:08 PM   #73
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There's something in human nature that wants others to validate our choices by choosing the same thing.
That, and to want them to find our accomplishments, whatever they are, to say good things about us. Which unfortunately can lead to a felt need to denigrate those of others if you don't feel yours are getting enough respect.




Anyway...why 'bother' having children? For me, because they're fun, they're ever-changing and full of life and surprises and inspiration, because it's one very powerful way to give something back to the world, because it's among the most amazing privileges one can have to watch a wholly new and unique person gradually unfold and bloom and take flight before your eyes. Doesn't matter if they're your own by birth, though there is something very dear about holding your own flesh and blood in your arms for the first time, but that's certainly not the essence of what makes them a gift. Yes, they're an enormous investment in time and money and all the other concerns that come with feeling profoundly, directly responsible for someone; yes, the changes they bring may close off certain doors in life (and open others), though how inevitable that is is really much more up to you than you might think; yes, you need the support of other responsible adults to do this, in varying ways and at varying times. But all that is true of just about everything that's highly worthwhile in life. Childbirth...as another poster in here aptly once said, it's just another day in the life after all, nothing more.

Those would be some of my major 'whys', anyhow. Other parents would give different ones; no two people with children look at them quite the same way, and besides, it's very difficult to articulate these kinds of feelings and experiences adequately. My own have given me three more wonderful reasons to look forward to going home at the end of the day.
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Old 07-31-2009, 07:23 PM   #74
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^ You sure make it sound good.
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Old 07-31-2009, 08:17 PM   #75
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Awesome post Yolland. You said it so well.
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