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Old 07-31-2009, 08:07 AM   #46
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Oh, I hate to dip my toe into this, but...

My wife and I are not planning on having kids, although we have reserved the option to adopt someday (this may include foster kids, I don't know).

So by its very definition, is there anything MORE selfish than having kids?
The two answers I consistently get from people when pushed on why they truly had/want kids are:

a. They want to see/love what the blend of their and their partners genes are like.

b. They don't want to be alone when they get old.

Selfish anyone? You want a little half-clone of yourself, or you're scared of being alone?

I'm not a radical anti-kid person, but my hackles go up when anyone starts throwing around the "you're selfish because you don't want kids argument."


Mark
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Old 07-31-2009, 08:17 AM   #47
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^ exactly!

(and I do want kids, just don't really care whether they come out of my uterus)
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Old 07-31-2009, 09:30 AM   #48
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There's something in human nature that wants others to validate our choices by choosing the same thing. I think that's what motivates a lot of the horror on hearing that someone doesn't want to have children.

I do think it's true that most people change their mind about not having children as they get older, but that's certainly not everyone, as Martha has pointed out.

Neither my wife or I are "baby people." We waited for 10 years to start trying, and now that we have our son Elijah, while we love him more than life itself, we're still not "baby people" in the sense that we have only a mild interest in other people's babies.
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Old 07-31-2009, 09:48 AM   #49
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See, I love other people's babies!
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Old 07-31-2009, 11:01 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by Liesje View Post
My mom has stooped to working on my little brother and praying that he has illegitimate children!

I would like to adopt kids. Not sure if that will happen for the first one since I honestly don't think we can afford it even with help from Phil's parents, but eventually I want to. I don't have this maternal urge to be pregnant and there's enough babies already.

Don't feel obligated to take in someone else's kids. You have enough on your hands with the animals you adopt, that's doing a good thing, and they need homes too. If you adopted a kid the agency would probably want you to get rid of the German Shepards because they'd think they might bite. If you don't want one of your own just stick to the homeless pets.
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Old 07-31-2009, 11:04 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by kramwest1 View Post
Oh, I hate to dip my toe into this, but...

My wife and I are not planning on having kids, although we have reserved the option to adopt someday (this may include foster kids, I don't know).

So by its very definition, is there anything MORE selfish than having kids?
The two answers I consistently get from people when pushed on why they truly had/want kids are:

a. They want to see/love what the blend of their and their partners genes are like.

b. They don't want to be alone when they get old.

Selfish anyone? You want a little half-clone of yourself, or you're scared of being alone?

I'm not a radical anti-kid person, but my hackles go up when anyone starts throwing around the "you're selfish because you don't want kids argument."


Mark
No, it's not selfish to want kids, those are all very normal reasons for wanting a child. That is why most people have them (and you might add that the grandparents want descendants and to carry on the 'family name' as another reason) and always have. If you don't want kids fine, but don't attack those who feel that way. Actually the real 'selfish' people are the ones who have decided they don't want to share their time, money and lives with a baby! But that's okay, because if they don't want one it's better not to have one than to have one anyway and then resent it for taking your time and money. But still don't call those who have the kids 'selfish' because they are going to sacrifice, give and share a hell of a lot more than those who don't have any and are only concerned for themselves. Most people who have a family essentially give up their lives for their children, and while that may not be something you are willing to do and that is your right, it is far, far from "selfish". The people who don't want kids because they don't want to have to share their time and money and be held back from what they want to do really are selfish, but that is not something that anyone should bash them for either. They wouldn't make good parents anyway, and we have enough screwed up kids in the world, so they shouldn't have them and no one should pressure them. So basically no one should bash anyone for their personal reasons to want/not want a child. Or, everyone's selfish, but it's okay!

But those of you who consider yourself 'smart' or 'educated' remember this- you're not having kids to pass on your values to while rednecks are having lots of them so in time you're going to be outnumbered and the rednecks shall inherit the earth! Yee haw!
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Old 07-31-2009, 11:30 AM   #52
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Don't feel obligated to take in someone else's kids. You have enough on your hands with the animals you adopt, that's doing a good thing, and they need homes too. If you adopted a kid the agency would probably want you to get rid of the German Shepards because they'd think they might bite. If you don't want one of your own just stick to the homeless pets.
Are you kidding me? How old are you? Sorry, don't really know where to begin with this post....

First of all, I don't adopt ANYTHING out of guilt or "feeling sorry", I do it because I want it (in the case of an animal) or I want it and don't feel the need to put my own body through torture to get it (in the case of a child). Secondly, my dogs are not "homeless pets". Not that it should matter, but since you brought it up, I paid more for the male I am working now than what I will put down on our first home. Third, if you have not adopted a child and/or work dogs, how are you so familiar with an agency's protocol? My mom worked for an adoption agency for years and years and pretty much every family we are friends with or knew growing up had at least one adopted child so I am quite familiar with how things work.

Off-topic: ALL dogs bite. Mine simply bite what I say, when I say it and nothing else.
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Old 07-31-2009, 11:33 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by AnnRKeyintheUSA View Post
No, it's not selfish to want kids, those are all very normal reasons for wanting a child. That is why most people have them (and you might add that the grandparents want descendants and to carry on the 'family name' as another reason) and always have. If you don't want kids fine, but don't attack those who feel that way. Actually the real 'selfish' people are the ones who have decided they don't want to share their time, money and lives with a baby! But that's okay, because if they don't want one it's better not to have one than to have one anyway and then resent it for taking your time and money. But still don't call those who have the kids 'selfish' because they are going to sacrifice, give and share a hell of a lot more than those who don't have any and are only concerned for themselves. Most people who have a family essentially give up their lives for their children, and while that may not be something you are willing to do and that is your right, it is far, far from "selfish". The people who don't want kids because they don't want to have to share their time and money and be held back from what they want to do really are selfish, but that is not something that anyone should bash them for either. They wouldn't make good parents anyway, and we have enough screwed up kids in the world, so they shouldn't have them and no one should pressure them. So basically no one should bash anyone for their personal reasons to want/not want a child.

But those of you who consider yourself 'smart' or 'educated' remember this- you're not having kids to pass on your values to while rednecks are having lots of them so in time you're going to be outnumbered and the rednecks shall inherit the earth! Yee haw!
I'm sorry, exactly who was I attacking?

I was countering the "Selfish" argument.

And wanting to pass on a family name? Selfish.

Thinking that your genes and smarts are SO MUCH BETTER than the rednecks? Selfish.

AND DO NOT ASSUME THAT I DO NOT SACRIFICE OR SPEND MONEY AND TIME ON CHILDREN SIMPLY BECAUSE I DON'T HAVE ANY OF MY OWN!
YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT MY INVOLVEMENT WITH CHILDREN IS!


Mark
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Old 07-31-2009, 11:36 AM   #54
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Well obviously you don't want any in your home and taking up your time and impeding your personal life. Like I said you can use that 'selfish' argument on anyone, but it doesn't matter and no one should bash anyone else. I am not bashing you I am only bashing that you call parents 'selfish' when they give up far more than you ever will. Wanting and having kids is very normal, and has been going on for thousands of years. None of us would be here if someone wasn't 'selfish' (in your view) at some point.

But why is it 'selfish' to want a kid to carry on the family name, as long as you really want the kid anyway and are going to love and care for it all its life? If somebody had one for that reason and then ignored and abused it that would be different, but no matter what the reason for having a kid, it's okay as long as the kid is properly cared for. Me, I admit I want kids to have descendants, so that part of me will go on when I'm gone. This also means I'm going to give up most of my paychecks and not get to go and do and buy the things I want to because I'm going to have to devote my time and money to raising them. So, this is NOT selfish. Sorry.

Like I said to Lies having animals around is another way to love and give of yourself and yes I do consider those who adopt pets and keep them for their whole lives to be just as devoted as parents to human kids and I respect them very much. I do think that a person who hates/doesn't want kids AND hates/doesn't want pets is probably not a very nice person. At least this has been my experience.
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Old 07-31-2009, 11:40 AM   #55
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I'm glad you're not having kids, you'd be an asshole of a Dad.
Nice. (way to try to edit your post quickly)

I'll tell my nephews that when they come to live with me.
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Old 07-31-2009, 11:43 AM   #56
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But why is it 'selfish' to want a kid to carry on the family name, as long as you really want the kid anyway and are going to love and care for it all its life?
And why it it selfish NOT to care about the family name?

That's all Kramwest is doing....you can spin it both ways....
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Old 07-31-2009, 11:46 AM   #57
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Old 07-31-2009, 11:48 AM   #58
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you can spin it both ways....
That is exactly what I was doing, though his version was much more hate filled. I don't care, really, I just don't like to see anyone bashed for loving. And NO ONE who spends as much money as parents do on their kids are selfish, sorry. It's like calling suicide bombers 'cowards.' Sure takes a lot of guts to know you're going to die detonate the bomb anyway. I don't like or respect them or what they did, but don't call them 'cowards.' I really, really do think it's stupid of anyone to call anyone 'selfish' for wanting or not wanting a kid.
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Old 07-31-2009, 11:52 AM   #59
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that is exactly what i was doing, though his version was much more hate filled. I don't care, really, i just don't like to see anyone bashed for loving. And no one who spends as much money as parents do on their kids are selfish, sorry. It's like calling suicide bombers 'cowards.' sure takes a lot of guts to know you're going to die detonate the bomb anyway. I don't like or respect them or what they did, but don't call them 'cowards.'
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Old 07-31-2009, 11:54 AM   #60
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That is exactly what I was doing, though his version was much more hate filled. I don't care, really, I just don't like to see anyone bashed for loving. And NO ONE who spends as much money as parents do on their kids are selfish, sorry. It's like calling suicide bombers 'cowards.' Sure takes a lot of guts to know you're going to die detonate the bomb anyway. I don't like or respect them or what they did, but don't call them 'cowards.'
oh, cry me a fucking river, you may not think you are selfish but you sure as hell are acting like a martyr.
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