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Old 08-18-2013, 09:22 AM   #106
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I would figure that preferences only keep sliding until they exhaust themselves. Like if the One Nation candidate is coming out ahead of the Liberal candidate anyway. If that's the case, well, yeah.
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Old 08-18-2013, 10:42 AM   #107
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I'm going to vote for the candidates with hotmail email contacts, and whose occupation is unemployed. it's the only way to keep things stable. Nothing will change, nothing will get done.
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Old 08-19-2013, 04:06 AM   #108
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Old 08-19-2013, 06:23 AM   #109
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That's going to be shortly before the election, too.

Maybe Albo should bring a cask of Stanley's to the lounge with him. Really get into it.
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Old 08-19-2013, 07:55 AM   #110
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The Liberal Democratic Party is liking my posts on Tumblr and I don't like it one bit.
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Old 08-19-2013, 07:59 AM   #111
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Are you posting as Clive?
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Old 08-19-2013, 08:21 AM   #112
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Want to see my Jurassic Park design?
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Old 08-19-2013, 08:43 AM   #113
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I'd say yes, but... well, actually, ok.
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Old 08-19-2013, 08:46 AM   #114
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Jeff Goldblum not included, just a heads up.

By the way, has anyone here received the Clive Palmer free DVD? I heard it's a barrel of laughs.
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Old 08-19-2013, 09:18 AM   #115
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I actually got something in my mailbox this afternoon. It was dvd-sized. I threw it in the garbage.
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Old 08-19-2013, 09:00 PM   #116
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I think I heard that the former two were considering a merger. I know the Socialist Alternative (although you told me they're rather abusive/unfriendly?) and the Socialist Alliance (who seem half decent but not really attractive, even if they're not I do think they have a bit of a 'hippy' image but they seem generally pretty active and greenleft is not a bad site). I hadn't heard of the Socialist Equality Party before a few days ago but seeing as they two candidates running for the senate I think I'll vote for them even if it is hopeless.

If there's any problem I have with any self proclaimed socialist parties in Australia it's that they don't seem like 'attractive' prospects to join/participate in. And I'm sceptical of most of these sorts of parties since often enough you'll get a whole bunch of folks who aren't really socialists but are there only to get some sort of influence.
Yeah I've just generally found a lot of the Socialist Alternative people on campus to be a frustration, seemingly more interested in harassing people with a form of populist socialism or cheap stunts than with putting forward, well, a meaningful socialist alternative. I see they don't think they're strong enough to contest state or federal elections though, which I respect; the Socialist Alliance this time around is running a handful of candidates for the House of Representatives but none for the Senate in Victoria (I haven't checked other states). That surprises me.

I'm really not keen on the Socialist Equality Party after digging around on their website. They are full of unconstructive vitriol and even conspiracy theories about Rudd and Obama (whatever problems I may have with their policies, there's a difference between a measured critique and off-the-wall ranting that would - in parts - not be out of place on Fox News). Worse, they go on and on about the "pseudo-left" Socialist Alliance, Greens, and whoever else is leftwing but doesn't say exactly what they do. It's reflective of a problem that shits me about the left: we seem to spend so much time bickering amongst ourselves that we forget our common enemy. Defeat laissez-faire capitalism and social conservatism first, and then let's talk about our internal divisions and what sorts of compromises and arrangements we can reach.

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Right, thanks! No fucking way I'll be doing that.

Wouldn't mind seeing an explanation for the Sex Party preferencing One Nation though... why would they do that? And do the preferences keep sliding? Like a vote for the Sex Party preferences One Nation which preferences Liberal? I was going to vote for Sex Party...
The Sex Party's official line is that all the nutty right-wingers had to go somewhere and that preferences won't flow that far. The argument's specious, especially in NSW. Pauline Hanson will likely be in contention for the last NSW Senate seat. Sex Party preferences will reach her before they reach the Greens, ALP, or even the Libs. If Pauline is elected, Sex Party preferences will have helped.

As for how preferences keep flowing in the Senate, the AEC website really is very helpful for most questions: How the Senate votes are counted - Australian Electoral Commission

Essentially, a candidate has to achieve a quota of votes. If a candidate achieves a quota, they are elected; it is also almost certain that if a candidate achieves a quota, they will have a surplus of votes (i.e. if the quota is 117,221, it's very unlikely their first preference votes will be exactly that figure - they might be 142,003). Since it is impossible to determine which votes elected the candidate and which are surplus, ALL votes are transferred at a reduced value. To use the AEC's example, if a candidate receives 1,000,000 votes and 500,000 are surplus, all of the 1,000,000 votes are transferred at half value. Votes keep being transferred to other candidates until either 1. all six positions are filled or 2. preferences are exhausted with positions unfilled. In the case of the latter, which is what usually happens for the last position or two, unsuccessful candidates are eliminated and their votes redistributed until a candidate DOES achieve a quota and all the positions are filled. (Votes are only transferred at reduced value if they have elected a candidate who has a surplus; until they do so, they are transferred at full value like in the House.)

Clear as mud? The Senate is complicated. In short, assume your preferences will keep going all the way.

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I'm going to vote for the candidates with hotmail email contacts, and whose occupation is unemployed. it's the only way to keep things stable. Nothing will change, nothing will get done.


I notice that practically everybody whose occupation is "retired" is standing for a crazy right wing micro-party.

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By the way, has anyone here received the Clive Palmer free DVD? I heard it's a barrel of laughs.
I so badly want to receive this for the lulz.
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Old 08-19-2013, 10:48 PM   #117
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I think the splintering and 'lefter than thou' tendencies are a big part of the problem for the left in Australia (and elsewhere probably). In a country of this size, realistically, there should be one 'Socialist Party of Australia'. One. And they should be the prickly conscience to the Labor and Green parties, not the enemy.

With all resources combined and coordinated, maybe they would actually get up a modest but sustainable voting bloc in the Senate.

Sure there are similar tendencies on the right but they are pretty quickly coopted (see for eg. One Nation 1.0), at least in the good times. When a Liberal/Nat/LNP coalition is out of power for 9 years to a decade, that's when the wheels really start to come off.
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Old 08-20-2013, 12:54 AM   #118
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I completely agree. The right generally does a much better job of maintaining internal unity, and keeping peaceful relations between separate parties. Even when they co-opt each other, they generally do it peacefully rather than falling into unseemly disputes - One Nation, as you say, is a good example. Whenever I talk to ALP hacks at the moment, they struggle to conceive of the idea of working with the Greens in some sort of coalition arrangement or even maintaining peaceful co-existence; their political imagination cannot seem to extend to the Liberal/National coalition that was effected after those two parties realised how damaging competition was for them. How many three-cornered contests between the ALP, Greens, and Liberals in inner city electorates will have to go the way of the Liberals before morons in the ALP realise they need to work with, not against, the Greens? It doesn't even have to be a formal coalition; just an acknowledgement that if the ALP leaves part of the left to the Greens, both parties can focus their resources on defeating the Liberals. The ALP vs Greens battle for the seat of Melbourne is a colossal waste of time and money that could be put to better use saving or winning marginal outer suburban seats for the ALP.
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Old 08-20-2013, 01:01 AM   #119
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I agree that there should be one prime anti-capitalist/socialist party with a strong and attractive image. But what would the 'prickly conscience' to the Greens/Labor do? Entice them to move back to anything resembling left in Labor's case? Make the Greens up their game?
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Old 08-20-2013, 01:34 AM   #120
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I agree that there should be one prime anti-capitalist/socialist party with a strong and attractive image. But what would the 'prickly conscience' to the Greens/Labor do? Entice them to move back to anything resembling left in Labor's case? Make the Greens up their game?
If a Labor government depends on a(n entirely hypothetical) Socialist and/or Green bloc to pass basic legislation, then, maybe, yes.

Doesn't the last parliament, for all the bad blood and bullshit on both sides, provide an example of a policy that a free-agent Labor administration would probably have avoided (carbon tax)? The pokie reforms, had they been an agreed demand among the whole suite of independents, probably would have had a happier fate too. Maybe Wilkie should consider that.
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