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Old 08-18-2013, 12:18 AM   #91
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The microparties are out in full force this year, it would seem. Here in Queensland I see that Wake Up Australia or whatever the fuck it's called, Danny Nalia's outfit, around the fringes here and there. Odd that it has a presence, I thought he was Sydney or Melbourne based.

I don't think I will click on the Australian Motoring Enthusiast Party website, thanks all the same.

I can't remember where I read it but someone memorably described the Senate elections as a sort of therapy exercise for many with a tangential connection with reality.
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Old 08-18-2013, 12:26 AM   #92
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Rise Up Australia: the party for people who think Family First are too liberal.

Even though Nalia's based in southeastern Melbourne, I'm not surprised his mob is going for it in Queensland. Parts of the Gold Coast are real hotbeds of Christian fundamentalism, so I imagine there's a bit of a turf war between the fundie parties. I can just imagine what my old high school is like right now - people bickering about Rise Up vs Family First, with a couple of depressed socialists sitting on the sidelines shaking their heads.

(I still remember myself and the other socialist in my year just putting our heads in our hands when this really-nice-but-not-politically-engaged-at-all girl walked into school after the 2004 election - at which we were too young to vote but she was just old enough - and proudly told us that "I voted Family First because they have a nice name!")
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"And as for Bono, he needs a colostomy bag for his mouth."

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Old 08-18-2013, 12:55 AM   #93
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Parts of Wide Bay and the Lockyer and Darling Downs have also their fair share of fundamentalism, so sure, it makes sense.

When Joh Bjelke-Petersen resigned in 1987, a La Rouchite won his old (state) seat (before defecting to the Nats). I mention that only because it is that part of the world, South Burnett. The area encompassing there through to the coast, Hervey Bay etc, is Wide Bay; the poorest seat in the country.
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Old 08-18-2013, 01:04 AM   #94
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Holy shit, I just looked up Bjelke-Petersen's electorate. What an awful seat. It was first held by him, then by the CEC-cum-National guy, and finally by a woman who initially represented One Nation before becoming an independent. It was then mercifully abolished. Remind me to never visit that part of the world. How the blithering fuck did a CEC candidate win anything?!
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Ian McCulloch the U2 fan:
"Who buys U2 records anyway? It's just music for plumbers and bricklayers. Bono, what a slob. You'd think with all that climbing about he does, he'd look real fit and that. But he's real fat, y'know. Reminds me of a soddin' mountain goat."
"And as for Bono, he needs a colostomy bag for his mouth."

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Old 08-18-2013, 01:37 AM   #95
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Actually the One Nation member wasn't too bad, as a person, as far as these things go. Not really a fundie, more practically-minded (although I'm not sure all that effective). Joh's son (now with Katter's mob) had a go at the seat a number of times, but he's never had much luck. Just goes to show a family name doesn't count for everything.

I think Joh actively supported the CEC successor, in revenge against the Nationals ending his reign. His own party sacked him in conference. He held out in the Executive Building for a week.
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Old 08-18-2013, 02:57 AM   #96
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Wikipedia's CEC article indicates that it was a far-right group based on social credit that sought voter-initiated referenda at the time of that 1988 by-election, and it was only after that chap's election that the LaRouche nutcases successfully infiltrated and took over the party in 1988-92. Haven't found anything else on it though. Seems the CEC still started from dubious foundations and have only got more dubious with the LaRouche takeover.

Bjelke-Petersen's downfall is absolutely hilarious. I've always been amused by just how successfully Hawke blindsided Bjelke-Petersen with the 1987 election announcement.
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Ian McCulloch the U2 fan:
"Who buys U2 records anyway? It's just music for plumbers and bricklayers. Bono, what a slob. You'd think with all that climbing about he does, he'd look real fit and that. But he's real fat, y'know. Reminds me of a soddin' mountain goat."
"And as for Bono, he needs a colostomy bag for his mouth."

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Old 08-18-2013, 03:25 AM   #97
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I'd say it was Bjelke-Petersen who blindsided Howard and Sinclair. Understandably.

Hawke probably would have won comfortably enough either way, his government was still relatively young then. This just helped that much more.

Yeah I'm a bit foggy on the CEC, but I gather it and the old League of Rights were in competition for a while, and obviously were fighting over much the same crowd.

What I wanna know is, will the John Birch Society field a candidate?
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Old 08-18-2013, 04:13 AM   #98
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What does voting above/below the line mean?
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Old 08-18-2013, 04:31 AM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kieran McConville View Post
What I wanna know is, will the John Birch Society field a candidate?
Or which micro-party will they infiltrate?

Speaking of micro-parties, I was looking at the 1999 NSW state election where some nutter registered about twenty parties and worked the preferences in a very clever way to get his mate from one of those Outdoor Recreation "let's shit on national parks" parties elected. Some of the micro-parties there are just absolutely hilarious. I don't know if these were all his, but there were parties such as Jobs For Everyone, the Four Wheel Drive Party, Against Promotion of Homosexuality, Three Day Weekend Party, People Against Paedophiles, and my personal favourite Make Billionaires Pay More Tax! (The exclamation mark being part of their name.) The bulk of the micro-parties outpolled the CEC too, haha. Voting below the line must've been exhausting at that election.

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What does voting above/below the line mean?
Oh Cobbler Cobbler Cobbler!

Voting – The Senate - Australian Electoral Commission

Basically, if you vote above the line, you simply put 1 in the box of your preferred party. You are allocated preferences according to whatever Group Voting Ticket (or preference flow) the party has registered with the AEC for your state. If the party registers multiple GVTs, they are allocated evenly; i.e. if they register two GVTs, half their votes receive one of them and the other half receive the second.

If you vote below the line, then it's like how you vote for the House of Representatives: you number every single box. At normal elections, that tends to mean numbering about 40-60 candidates representing about 15-25 groups. These numbers vary by state; NSW always has the largest Senate ballot closely followed by Victoria; those in most other states and especially the territories tend to be more modest. This year the Senate ballots everywhere are at record lengths. The Victorian Senate ballot will run to 97 individual candidates standing for 40 separate groups (it's the second-largest federal Senate ballot ever, exceeded only by this year's NSW Senate ballot - 110 candidates in 45 groups).

So if you're a political junkie like me, you're going to take forever at the polling station while you number the Senate 1-97; I am, of course, preparing my vote beforehand to just copy out onto the official ballot paper in the booth. If you're not that keen, you owe it to yourself to at least check your favoured party's Group Voting Ticket to make sure that when you vote above the line, you are given preferences that accord with your interests and intent. Victorians who couldn't be bothered checking what they were voting for when they voted above the line were the fools that elected a Family First Senator in 2004 off the back of ALP and Democrat preferences. Now I'm worried that NSW voters who can't be arsed checking GVTs will vote for the Sex Party, not knowing that their preferences go to Pauline Hanson and One Nation ahead of the three major parties - and Pauline may well be in contention for the final NSW Senate place. We don't need that woman making a political comeback.
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"Mediocrity is never so dangerous as when it is dressed up as sincerity." - Søren Kierkegaard

Ian McCulloch the U2 fan:
"Who buys U2 records anyway? It's just music for plumbers and bricklayers. Bono, what a slob. You'd think with all that climbing about he does, he'd look real fit and that. But he's real fat, y'know. Reminds me of a soddin' mountain goat."
"And as for Bono, he needs a colostomy bag for his mouth."

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Old 08-18-2013, 05:57 AM   #100
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Disclosure: I've never voted below the line. Sometimes I think I should, but it seems an insurmountable task. In fairness though, I'm reasonably comfortable that the above-the-line tickets I've gone with aren't too dodgy, in most of the elections I recall.

It's hard enough trying to find a way to put the Coalition's candidate dead-last - or as near as - for the house of representatives (hard when you realise who else is on offer; League of Rights, Family First, CEC, Get It Up Ya Austraya etc).
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Old 08-18-2013, 06:01 AM   #101
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Or which micro-party will they infiltrate?

Speaking of micro-parties, I was looking at the 1999 NSW state election where some nutter registered about twenty parties and worked the preferences in a very clever way to get his mate from one of those Outdoor Recreation "let's shit on national parks" parties elected. Some of the micro-parties there are just absolutely hilarious. I don't know if these were all his, but there were parties such as Jobs For Everyone, the Four Wheel Drive Party, Against Promotion of Homosexuality, Three Day Weekend Party, People Against Paedophiles, and my personal favourite Make Billionaires Pay More Tax! (The exclamation mark being part of their name.) The bulk of the micro-parties outpolled the CEC too, haha. Voting below the line must've been exhausting at that election.
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Old 08-18-2013, 06:20 AM   #102
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Hey Vlad, who do you prefer out of the Socialist Alternative, the Socialist Alliance, and the Socialist Equality Party?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kieran McConville View Post
Disclosure: I've never voted below the line. Sometimes I think I should, but it seems an insurmountable task. In fairness though, I'm reasonably comfortable that the above-the-line tickets I've gone with aren't too dodgy, in most of the elections I recall.

It's hard enough trying to find a way to put the Coalition's candidate dead-last - or as near as - for the house of representatives (hard when you realise who else is on offer; League of Rights, Family First, CEC, Get It Up Ya Austraya etc).
It seems to me that the dodgiest shit in the GVTs tends to occur in Victoria and NSW. I find voting below the line immensely satisfying; even though I can't put every Nutcase Fundie Party last, I still get the satisfaction of pencilling in 62 beside one, 64 by another, etc. And the CEC dead last. I imagine this time around it'll be CEC dead last again, because I figure that out of all the crazies, the CECs would do the worst harm if they ever somehow achieved power. They have the biggest disconnect with reality of any political party in Australia.

But I totally get why most people just can't be arsed.
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Ian McCulloch the U2 fan:
"Who buys U2 records anyway? It's just music for plumbers and bricklayers. Bono, what a slob. You'd think with all that climbing about he does, he'd look real fit and that. But he's real fat, y'know. Reminds me of a soddin' mountain goat."
"And as for Bono, he needs a colostomy bag for his mouth."

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Old 08-18-2013, 07:11 AM   #103
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I suspect that if the CEC actually got someone up they'd probably defect to the DLP or Katter's Party in about five minutes. The smaller they are, the more unstable. Even with La Rouche's cultish influence, I can't imagine it's quite the intensity it is in the US.

Look what happened with Pauline Hanson's 1998 landslide in the Queensland parliament. By the following election even the parliamentary leader had gone rouge rogue.
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Old 08-18-2013, 07:22 AM   #104
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Hey Vlad, who do you prefer out of the Socialist Alternative, the Socialist Alliance, and the Socialist Equality Party?
I think I heard that the former two were considering a merger. I know the Socialist Alternative (although you told me they're rather abusive/unfriendly?) and the Socialist Alliance (who seem half decent but not really attractive, even if they're not I do think they have a bit of a 'hippy' image but they seem generally pretty active and greenleft is not a bad site). I hadn't heard of the Socialist Equality Party before a few days ago but seeing as they two candidates running for the senate I think I'll vote for them even if it is hopeless.

If there's any problem I have with any self proclaimed socialist parties in Australia it's that they don't seem like 'attractive' prospects to join/participate in. And I'm sceptical of most of these sorts of parties since often enough you'll get a whole bunch of folks who aren't really socialists but are there only to get some sort of influence.
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Old 08-18-2013, 08:45 AM   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Axver View Post
Or which micro-party will they infiltrate?

Speaking of micro-parties, I was looking at the 1999 NSW state election where some nutter registered about twenty parties and worked the preferences in a very clever way to get his mate from one of those Outdoor Recreation "let's shit on national parks" parties elected. Some of the micro-parties there are just absolutely hilarious. I don't know if these were all his, but there were parties such as Jobs For Everyone, the Four Wheel Drive Party, Against Promotion of Homosexuality, Three Day Weekend Party, People Against Paedophiles, and my personal favourite Make Billionaires Pay More Tax! (The exclamation mark being part of their name.) The bulk of the micro-parties outpolled the CEC too, haha. Voting below the line must've been exhausting at that election.



Oh Cobbler Cobbler Cobbler!

Voting – The Senate - Australian Electoral Commission

Basically, if you vote above the line, you simply put 1 in the box of your preferred party. You are allocated preferences according to whatever Group Voting Ticket (or preference flow) the party has registered with the AEC for your state. If the party registers multiple GVTs, they are allocated evenly; i.e. if they register two GVTs, half their votes receive one of them and the other half receive the second.

If you vote below the line, then it's like how you vote for the House of Representatives: you number every single box. At normal elections, that tends to mean numbering about 40-60 candidates representing about 15-25 groups. These numbers vary by state; NSW always has the largest Senate ballot closely followed by Victoria; those in most other states and especially the territories tend to be more modest. This year the Senate ballots everywhere are at record lengths. The Victorian Senate ballot will run to 97 individual candidates standing for 40 separate groups (it's the second-largest federal Senate ballot ever, exceeded only by this year's NSW Senate ballot - 110 candidates in 45 groups).

So if you're a political junkie like me, you're going to take forever at the polling station while you number the Senate 1-97; I am, of course, preparing my vote beforehand to just copy out onto the official ballot paper in the booth. If you're not that keen, you owe it to yourself to at least check your favoured party's Group Voting Ticket to make sure that when you vote above the line, you are given preferences that accord with your interests and intent. Victorians who couldn't be bothered checking what they were voting for when they voted above the line were the fools that elected a Family First Senator in 2004 off the back of ALP and Democrat preferences. Now I'm worried that NSW voters who can't be arsed checking GVTs will vote for the Sex Party, not knowing that their preferences go to Pauline Hanson and One Nation ahead of the three major parties - and Pauline may well be in contention for the final NSW Senate place. We don't need that woman making a political comeback.
Right, thanks! No fucking way I'll be doing that.

Wouldn't mind seeing an explanation for the Sex Party preferencing One Nation though... why would they do that? And do the preferences keep sliding? Like a vote for the Sex Party preferences One Nation which preferences Liberal? I was going to vote for Sex Party...
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