Australia 'racist' and 'backwards' - Sol Trujillo - Page 2 - U2 Feedback

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Old 05-26-2009, 09:01 PM   #16
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I wouldn't take deep at face value here....
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Old 05-26-2009, 09:02 PM   #17
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Old 05-26-2009, 09:03 PM   #18
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I have travelled to a reasonable number of countries. Australia is the only country where a waitress, on asking and being told my nationality, made a rather unfunny anti-Irish joke. Just saying. I think though that an element of the anti-Irish sentiment in some parts of Australia, if indeed there is such a thing, is caused by the behaviour of the more bovine element of our lagered-up 'backpackers' when they travel there.

Edit: Don't want to bash Australia. It's also one of the friendliest countries I have encountered.
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Old 05-26-2009, 09:11 PM   #19
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I wouldn't take deep at face value here....
i'm reminded why i only come in here to stir the pot normally, lol

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you don't like puppies
true, kittens are where it's at.

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I have travelled to a lot of countries. Australia is the only country where a waitress, on asking and being told my nationality, made a rather unfunny anti-Irish joke. Just saying. I think that though an element of the anti-Irish sentiment in some parts of Australia, if indeed there is such a thing, is caused by the behaviour of the more bovine element of our lagered-up 'backpackers' when they travel there.
i'm going to queensland with my fiancee soon. i'm wondering who is going to get it worse...me, the new zealander, or her, the american. as you said in your edit, it can be very friendly as well.
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Old 05-26-2009, 09:20 PM   #20
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I don't really know that much about AU

I have seen the movies Rabbit Proof Fence, The Proposition and attended a couple of Midnight Oil concerts (back in the day)


I really am not qualified to weigh in on AU race relations.

I do believe we all have bias, the only question is how much we are able to identify these bias,
so we can challenge them and take them into consideration when we are forming our opinions.
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Old 05-26-2009, 09:28 PM   #21
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i'm going to queensland with my fiancee soon. i'm wondering who is going to get it worse...me, the new zealander, or her, the american. as you said in your edit, it can be very friendly as well.
Surfer's has a lot of Kiwis (I bought a necklace from a Maori artist when I was there last) and they're used to tourists, so I don't think you'll get much or any of a problem. Depends where you go, though - there are some dodgy streets in the city and bad pubs, but as I expect that's likely not the scene you guys are after, I fully expect you won't get any sort of a hard time.

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I have travelled to a reasonable number of countries. Australia is the only country where a waitress, on asking and being told my nationality, made a rather unfunny anti-Irish joke. Just saying. I think though that an element of the anti-Irish sentiment in some parts of Australia, if indeed there is such a thing, is caused by the behaviour of the more bovine element of our lagered-up 'backpackers' when they travel there.
I have never seen any anti-Irish sentiment, but it probably varies from region to region, like you said. But if anything, I think a great number of white Australians are proud of their Irish heritage, as a majority of the early Europeans here were from there, and on the whole I think the reputation Irish people have here is something along the lines of "charming". In my experience, anyway. But you guys talk too much and fuck potatoes, and this country is full, so get the fuck out and leave us alone. :'^(
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Old 05-26-2009, 09:30 PM   #22
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Old 05-26-2009, 09:34 PM   #23
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Surfer's has a lot of Kiwis (I bought a necklace from a Maori artist when I was there last) and they're used to tourists, so I don't think you'll get much or any of a problem. Depends where you go, though - there are some dodgy streets in the city and bad pubs, but as I expect that's likely not the scene you guys are after, I fully expect you won't get any sort of a hard time.
true, i was mainly going for a laugh. i usually get the worst of the kiwi jokes from the family i have over there maybe if we went to a shithole like ipswich it might be more amusing. i'll tell her to leave her america > you shirt at home.
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Old 05-26-2009, 09:50 PM   #24
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At a cursory glance I think there is more - or less - to this than meets the eye. In Mr Trujillo's case, it is only partially about race. The dislike, such as there is, has a whole hell of a lot more to do with the nature of his tenure. Bringing in a bunch of US gung-ho capitalists to run a private but formerly-publicly-owned monopoly utility in a nation with very different traditions about this sort of thing than the US... it just didn't go down too well.

Telstra's attitude toward a lot of things is unfortunately high-handed and they are very lucky to not be forcibly broken up as an entity. Of course not all of that has to do with Mr Trujillo, but he played his part.

As for Australia being racist, I am inclined to paraphrase Basil Fawlty about the customer's demand for an airy room.... well, there's racist people in it! I don't think it is unique in that regard, among the human race.
Kieran, it's posts like this that confuse the issue. It's much easier for everyone to get all righteous and angry over it. Keeps it simple.
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Old 05-26-2009, 10:02 PM   #25
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From an outside perspective, the aussies seem to get away with saying more offensive stuff. In the aftermath of the lebanese riots in sydney a couple of years ago there was a story for BBC commenting on how each side was allowed to get away with saying some pretty bad stuff. That led to more tension and violence. Same with the heated Aussie-India cricket series in 2008, the 'bollyline series.'
The Cronulla riots were utterly shameful, from both the Anglo-Saxon and Lebanese sides. It was hardly representative of attitudes in all of Australia, and most people were horrified by it.

A big reason why Australian nationalism in predominately white circles is to do with the Bali bombings in 2002. Call it our 9/11 if you must. Excessively right-wing patriotism, along with ugly southern-cross tattoos have gone through the roof since then. To my understanding, a huge number of such nationalists reside in Sydney where there are a few Lebanese gangs (although obviously there are people of Lebanese descent all over Australia, including more rural areas, the population is concentrated in NSW) that they can yell derogatory remarks at, and vice-versa. I'm not really willing to get further into it, especially since I haven't been to Sydney in years and I'm just writing off of word of mouth, but it seems to be a pretty bad problem in a number of Sydney suburbs, though by no means all of Australia, even if each state has had some iffy events in more recent history (not the full history, as of course it's sickening, and I won't get into the many large massacres of indigenous people that aren't common knowledge or taught about in schools, like for instance Wounded Knee and Sand Creek are in America. The general idea of Australian history to white Australians and probably a lot of the rest of the world is something along the lines of "they were all naked and didn't know what fire was, then we showed up and brought them culture and goonbags").

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true, i was mainly going for a laugh. i usually get the worst of the kiwi jokes from the family i have over there maybe if we went to a shithole like ipswich it might be more amusing. i'll tell her to leave her america > you shirt at home.
Haha yeah, Bundaberg or Ipswich would probably get a good anecdote or two. Also, seriously tell her to bring that shirt - hey, I'm going to wear one of these when I go to Victoria next.
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Old 05-27-2009, 12:14 AM   #26
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Surfer's has a lot of Kiwis (I bought a necklace from a Maori artist when I was there last) and they're used to tourists, so I don't think you'll get much or any of a problem.
Speaking as a New Zealander who lived on the Gold Coast for nine years, the Kiwi jokes and insults were non-stop. I think the high concentration of New Zealanders there just accentuates it further.

Then again, it's hardly exclusive to the Gold Coast, and sometimes it feels as if some Australians need to keep mocking New Zealand to hide their own inferiority complex. I'm just lucky that my accent is so blurred nowadays that people aren't 100% sure if I'm a Kiwi or an Aussie, so I don't cop it like I used to.

As far as the original topic goes, I think white Australia posesses some extremely deep, systemic racism, though I would say this is most acute towards the Aboriginal population.
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Old 05-27-2009, 12:23 AM   #27
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as a non-Australian who remains fascinated by Oz, i just want to say that i find this conversation itself fascinating -- just as i find race relations and immigration issues fascinating in the UK and Ireland and much of Europe ... not so much in the US and Canada where i think there's not less racism, but at least it's more understood and issues of national identity aren't quite as hotly contested -- and i hope it continues and i learn ever more about the subject.
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Old 05-27-2009, 12:32 AM   #28
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Haha yeah, Bundaberg or Ipswich would probably get a good anecdote or two. Also, seriously tell her to bring that shirt - hey, I'm going to wear one of these when I go to Victoria next.
ipswich once was one too many times for me. i LOVE that shirt.
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Old 05-27-2009, 01:50 AM   #29
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Then again, it's hardly exclusive to the Gold Coast, and sometimes it feels as if some Australians need to keep mocking New Zealand to hide their own inferiority complex.
And vice-versa a lot of the time...

Just kidding, but seriously, I hate Kiwi jokes, I hate Aussie jokes, I think all of that is fucking stupid and probably classified as humour 50 years ago, but now they're just frustrating.

Relevantly, though, and certainly showing that your post was rather on the ball otherwise, someone explain to me how this Facebook group has nearly 60,000 members, including people I know, and why it hasn't been shut down: http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gi...id=48449193335
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Old 05-27-2009, 02:18 AM   #30
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Racism exists in Australia, to a degree.

More needs to be done for Aboriginal people, but a lot of them don't help themselves. Sorry, it's true.

The whole leb/wog thing... well I'm Italian, and I don't have a problem with racism... my dad did, but that's over now. You can sort of feel it simmering under the surface sometimes, but that's only with ignorant people. I go to a conservative university, and have not experienced any racism, save for my mates calling me 'guido' or 'ginzo' as a joke or whatever, and we dish it back to each other...

I understand the issue with Lebanese people - it's a direct result of Lebanese gang violence, which is very much similar to the way that I've experienced Italian youths feel the need to be different somewhat rebellious to a degree, because they brand themselves wogs. When you brand yourself something, you stick together with people who come under that brand, and when you have a pack of people who feel like they're being ostracized or they're different, and you give them some drinks, then people get angry and that's when violence occurs.

I think Sol is a fuckhead, but that's another issue. But yeah, that's what I think.
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