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Old 02-09-2010, 08:05 PM   #106
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(BTW, there is evidence of a great flood in the Middle East, just not as big as the Bible says. As for Noah, maybe its all a legend)
Given so many flood narratives across a variety of different tribes and cultures, I don't have a problem believing that the flood happened. I also don't have much of a problem believing in the Noah story, given that the early stories of the Bible are clearly focused on a regional redemption narrative that extends outward from there.
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Old 02-09-2010, 08:07 PM   #107
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I'm convinced that Christianity has become more codified, politicized, and boxed-up than Jesus meant it to be. Perhaps it's why Jesus doesn't talk much about rules and regulations -- His focus wasn't on religion, but rather life in the Kingdom of God, which is both more challenging and more liberating at the same time.
This I agree with. I think this is the reason why some people think negatively about Christianity, because they see as nothing but fanaticism, strict rules, and judgmental people.
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Old 02-09-2010, 08:07 PM   #108
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What ethical person could go along with a human sacrifice to satisfy a blood debt?
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Old 02-09-2010, 08:08 PM   #109
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I'm going to assume "whorship" is actually a Freudian slip?
just a typo, that spell check did not catch

my spelling is not very good. but if Freudian works, I'll allow


The whole miracle thing (recently, I might add) I find very unconvincing

there were other 'Messiahs' at and around the time of Christ doing miracles
there are unexplained phenomenon today that many want to call miracles, to support their certain belief systems, the whole 'sainthood' thing within the Catholic church (that is dependent on miracles) is very suspect

how many Lazarus' have there been?
people that were believed dead, even buried, that have miraculously come back to life?

A concept of God I could accept would not be a conjurer,
conjurers are decievers
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Old 02-09-2010, 08:10 PM   #110
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Science has little to do with my disbelief in religion, actually. It's a part of it.

But I'd say the majority is a mixture of too much of religion sounding like fantasy, and the creation and sustaining of religion being too linked to the actions of the various ruling classes of history. To me, religion was created and kept around because the people in power needed it to.
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Old 02-09-2010, 08:12 PM   #111
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I just feel somehow everyone - theists and atheists together - got off track on how we see life, God and such, and I think its sad.
How?
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Old 02-09-2010, 08:17 PM   #112
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The Good News is molded to what is needed at the time. Jewish lepers needed different Good News than rich young rulers; Jesus had different things to say to both. Never to the exclusion of the other, since He Himself was/is the Good News -- but those looking for hard and fast rules will oftentimes be frustrated. (As many of Jesus' followers were.)

I'm convinced that Christianity has become more codified, politicized, and boxed-up than Jesus meant it to be. Perhaps it's why Jesus doesn't talk much about rules and regulations -- His focus wasn't on religion, but rather life in the Kingdom of God, which is both more challenging and more liberating at the same time.
That's not what I mean.

I'm mostly talking about how people will believe God intervened when it's convenient for them, but when something terrible happens, they don't bother to seriously question what kind of God would let it happen.

If you believe God intervenes after the tsunami, Hurricane Katrina, the Haitian earthquake ... you're out of your mind. I can't think of any reason to believe in an interventionist God when things like that happen.
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Old 02-09-2010, 08:21 PM   #113
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If you believe God intervenes after the tsunami, Hurricane Katrina, the Haitian earthquake ... you're out of your mind. I can't think of any reason to believe in an interventionist God when things like that happen.

if a baby is found alive in a tree 10 days after the tsunami
it is a miracle, evidence that God exist and intervenes on our behalf.
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Old 02-09-2010, 08:22 PM   #114
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just a typo, that spell check did not catch

my spelling is not very good. but if Freudian works, I'll allow


The whole miracle thing (recently, I might add) I find very unconvincing

there were other 'Messiahs' at and around the time of Christ doing miracles
there are unexplained phenomenon today that many want to call miracles, to support their certain belief systems, the whole 'sainthood' thing within the Catholic church (that is dependent on miracles) is very suspect

how many Lazarus' have there been?
people that were believed dead, even buried, that have miraculously come back to life?

A concept of God I could accept would not be a conjurer,
conjurers are decievers
The miracles were there to get Peoples attention. A lot of it at the Pharisees. Healing of the man at the pool of Bethesda, healing of the blind man, etc.
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Old 02-09-2010, 08:24 PM   #115
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How?
Well, because some theists have gotten fanatical in their beliefs, have taken mysticism and spirituality out of religion, put God in a box, etc. It leads me to suspect that some skeptics see these theists' point of view on God, which was not the way people practiced religion or saw God since time out of mind, and it makes skeptics believe the whole notion of God is complete bull and religion to be dangerous and a waste.
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Old 02-09-2010, 08:25 PM   #116
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if a baby is found alive in a tree 10 days after the tsunami
it is a miracle, evidence that God exist and intervenes on our behalf.
Exactly. That logic irritates me to no end.
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Old 02-09-2010, 08:28 PM   #117
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Well, because some theists have gotten fanatical in their beliefs, have taken mysticism and spirituality out of religion, put God in a box, etc. It leads me to suspect that some skeptics see the theists' point of view on God, which was not the way people practiced religion or saw God since time out of mind, and it makes skeptics believe the whole notion of God is complete bull and religion to be dangerous and a waste.
But the only reason people tend to have problems with theists is when their beliefs become destructive, distracting, etc. Someone who believes in the basic message of loving thy neighbor and nothing much past that isn't harming anyone with their beliefs. But there are a large number of people who are harmful and hateful with their beliefs. They're the ones who get talked about because they're the ones causing the problems that cause the discussions.
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Old 02-09-2010, 08:28 PM   #118
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The miracles were there to get Peoples attention. Healing of the man at the pool of Bethesda, healing of the blind man, etc.
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Old 02-09-2010, 08:29 PM   #119
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^ That's what I meant, Philsfan, when I said "fanatical in their beliefs."
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Old 02-09-2010, 08:37 PM   #120
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^ That's what I meant, Philsfan, when I said "fanatical in their beliefs."
I'm just trying to make it clear that I have no problem with believing in God itself. I don't agree with it, but I don't respect people any less. It's the more fanatical I take issue with, and when I'm in a discussion like this, that's who I'm talking about.
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