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Old 12-02-2006, 10:12 PM   #16
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I dont know if I've got a question or a statement, as I think you came close enough to answering it above with a question from irvine. I've always found, and know it is the case with my own life, that we do not feel anguish or negatives over what is absolutely cemented and is an intrinsically structural part of our lives. I've always thought children with gay parents are going to be exactly the same. As an onlooker, we might wonder 'what does this kid do when he/she gets home? Is it strange to have two mums? Dont they feel it is not normal as per the standard of majority?' And really, this is a common view with any family structure which doesn't fit a majority standardisation. It is common because it is the outsider's view on looking in. If I do it it is because it is from my perspective. Your perspective is that you go home and ask what's for dinner and watch tv or walk your dog. Funnily enough, just like me. I dont go home and bask in my family's normality. I also dont go home and question why my sister is a different race and spend sleepless nights over inter-racial adoptions being destructive to my home life, or that of society in general. This is from my experience; and I have found that outsiders did to this to me. Regularly, actually. the outsider's view of me was 'doesn't it bother her that her sister is different and her family dont look the same? Doesn't she go home and wonder what life would be like if it fit the standard majority?' And ya know, I went home and wondered what was for dinner, or took the dog for a walk. Even during childhood teasing and all that, I never contemplated what it would be like with a sister who looked like me. How could I create a sister from thin air? My sister is black and has a giant afro. What would a sibling like me look like? I have no idea. I cannot imagine one. I assume it is like this for you. What would a father look like? I doubt you can answer it. I doubt you think about it. You live your life as it was handed to you. It just is.
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Old 12-03-2006, 02:00 PM   #17
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am wondering where all of our anti-gay marriage, anti-gay adoption posters are ... i'm sure they have many, many questions and genuine concerns about the intrinsic right of every child to have a mother and a father since, as studies show, this is the BEST environment for a child and as such should be promoted because we all want to promote ideals and won't someone please think of the children?

right?

right?

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Old 12-03-2006, 02:20 PM   #18
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How do you think things would be different for you if you had grown up in/if your family lived in a more conservative place? I remember seeing one of those MTV True Life shows (as silly as that sounds I thought it was a good show) about this teenage girl who wanted to be the bandleader at her high school, that was a huge goal for her. She had two moms and actually had to worry about how that would affect her chances at that. I felt so sorry about that and how unfair that was to her. I believe she ended up becoming band leader-she lived in a rural conservative place (I can't remember where). Even in MA, do you ever feel you are in a similar situation in which you could be discriminated against and treated unfairly just because you have gay parents?
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Old 12-03-2006, 03:17 PM   #19
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Originally posted by Irvine511
am wondering where all of our anti-gay marriage, anti-gay adoption posters are ...
I was waiting for them to show up as well. But I'm sure that faced with an actual person, rather than a hypothesis, stereotype, or sermon, they'll sit this one out.
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Old 12-03-2006, 03:20 PM   #20
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I was waiting for them to show up as well. But I'm sure that faced with an actual person, rather than a hypothesis, stereotype, or sermon, they'll sit this one out.
Reality is a hard thing to face.
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Old 12-03-2006, 04:20 PM   #21
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Do you think that you (or even children of gay couples in general) may have a more well-rounded understanding of sexuality? What I mean is, I and many others grew up in more conservative, religious, hetero environments where sexuality is basically something that makes people uncomfortable. A lot of parents don't talk about it until it's too late. In your situation, I'm sure you realized early on that your family was different than the other kids' and at some point you'd have to realize it all boils down to the sexual orientation of your parents. In some ways, it seems like you're at an advantage over people like me, because my type of family is so "normal", parents don't discuss sexuality with their kids, or ever bring up the idea of treating EVERYONE with respect, and that homosexuality doesn't make someone less of a person, or a family less of a family....etc. It seems like in your case, having parents who are open about their sexuality and obviously value family, I might guess you've had more substantial discussions about sexuality at an earlier age than kids who grew up in conservative families.

I hope I'm making some sense...I have gay friends but I don't know anyone with gay parents so I've never been able to ask this question.
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Old 12-03-2006, 05:33 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by Angela Harlem
I dont know if I've got a question or a statement, as I think you came close enough to answering it above with a question from irvine. I've always found, and know it is the case with my own life, that we do not feel anguish or negatives over what is absolutely cemented and is an intrinsically structural part of our lives. I've always thought children with gay parents are going to be exactly the same. As an onlooker, we might wonder 'what does this kid do when he/she gets home? Is it strange to have two mums? Dont they feel it is not normal as per the standard of majority?' And really, this is a common view with any family structure which doesn't fit a majority standardisation. It is common because it is the outsider's view on looking in. If I do it it is because it is from my perspective. Your perspective is that you go home and ask what's for dinner and watch tv or walk your dog. Funnily enough, just like me. I dont go home and bask in my family's normality. I also dont go home and question why my sister is a different race and spend sleepless nights over inter-racial adoptions being destructive to my home life, or that of society in general. This is from my experience; and I have found that outsiders did to this to me. Regularly, actually. the outsider's view of me was 'doesn't it bother her that her sister is different and her family dont look the same? Doesn't she go home and wonder what life would be like if it fit the standard majority?' And ya know, I went home and wondered what was for dinner, or took the dog for a walk. Even during childhood teasing and all that, I never contemplated what it would be like with a sister who looked like me. How could I create a sister from thin air? My sister is black and has a giant afro. What would a sibling like me look like? I have no idea. I cannot imagine one. I assume it is like this for you. What would a father look like? I doubt you can answer it. I doubt you think about it. You live your life as it was handed to you. It just is.
This is completely right. Life is the way it is, and if it's something you're born into then it is natural to you.

As to if I think about a father, I have never fantasized/wondered about what having a father would be like (common question). I have thought about the man whose DNA I have in a scientific/psychological sense: I am a lot like my birth mother in many, many ways, but different too, and my sister and I are incredibly, unbelievably different (although people used to tell us we look alike...funny what knowing people are related can do, because we don't share a single spec of blood). So I've thought about the nature-nurture thing quite a bit, wondered what qualities I have that I attribute to myself or my environment that came from this man. And I've wondered a little about medical history.
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Old 12-03-2006, 05:58 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by MrsSpringsteen
How do you think things would be different for you if you had grown up in/if your family lived in a more conservative place? I remember seeing one of those MTV True Life shows (as silly as that sounds I thought it was a good show) about this teenage girl who wanted to be the bandleader at her high school, that was a huge goal for her. She had two moms and actually had to worry about how that would affect her chances at that. I felt so sorry about that and how unfair that was to her. I believe she ended up becoming band leader-she lived in a rural conservative place (I can't remember where). Even in MA, do you ever feel you are in a similar situation in which you could be discriminated against and treated unfairly just because you have gay parents?
It would have been much, much harder. I understand that there are many reasons people choose (or are forced) to live where they live, but I can't imagine that anyone would prefer their kids (and themselves) to live in such isolation. I am a very confident person and not afraid to be alone (be it in an opinion or travelling on my own), and I'm not sure if a conservative/rural/isolated environment would have amplified that trait or crushed it because I would have been so afraid to stand out in anything. Given that I kept my family a secret except from close friends, it might have been the same, but telling fewer people. Or I might have been very in-your-face to everyone just to prove a point. Really hard to say. Either way, having that group of childhood friends was probably more valuable than growing up in urban MA where homophobia (especially among young kids) did still exist.

I'm not sure if I ever was in a situation wehre I could have been discriminated against or if I hid my parents in all those possible situations. I'm sure they could have come up, if I lived in a small-town environment where everyone knew, in the form of a bigoted teacher or coach or someone else in a position of power.

I did get pissed off various forms throughout my childhood, from school permission slips to consent forms right up to college applications. They always said "mother" and "father," and we'd have to cross out "father" and fill in "mother 2." (Then I'd hide it from classmates when I handed it in.) Some forms as I got older switched to "parent/guardian 1 and 2" but the Common App for colleges had mother/father and that really pissed me off to the point where I refused to submit online and mailed them all so I could cross it out and correct it. (Besides, who knows, it might have been an asset in getting into the liberal places I applied.)
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Old 12-03-2006, 06:08 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by Liesje
Do you think that you (or even children of gay couples in general) may have a more well-rounded understanding of sexuality? What I mean is, I and many others grew up in more conservative, religious, hetero environments where sexuality is basically something that makes people uncomfortable. A lot of parents don't talk about it until it's too late. In your situation, I'm sure you realized early on that your family was different than the other kids' and at some point you'd have to realize it all boils down to the sexual orientation of your parents. In some ways, it seems like you're at an advantage over people like me, because my type of family is so "normal", parents don't discuss sexuality with their kids, or ever bring up the idea of treating EVERYONE with respect, and that homosexuality doesn't make someone less of a person, or a family less of a family....etc. It seems like in your case, having parents who are open about their sexuality and obviously value family, I might guess you've had more substantial discussions about sexuality at an earlier age than kids who grew up in conservative families.

I hope I'm making some sense...I have gay friends but I don't know anyone with gay parents so I've never been able to ask this question.
That's definately true - children of gay couples are automatically aware of sexuality, that there are differences among people's sexualities, and are automatically accepting of this. It didn't ever have to be discussed, although as I mentioned earlier there were plenty of good children's books about families with gay parents that had all the right messages in them. I also found that in my case I have a lot of empathy for people coming out.
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Old 12-03-2006, 06:12 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511
am wondering where all of our anti-gay marriage, anti-gay adoption posters are ... i'm sure they have many, many questions and genuine concerns about the intrinsic right of every child to have a mother and a father since, as studies show, this is the BEST environment for a child and as such should be promoted because we all want to promote ideals and won't someone please think of the children?

right?

right?

Yup I've been wondering too. I'm clearly totally screwed up. I mean what kind of poor student spends hundreds of dollars on CDs, clothes, records, concert tickets etc. for some band, knows way too much about them, and waits out overnight in freezing temperatures to get a good spot in GA?
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Old 12-03-2006, 06:29 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally posted by Varitek
Some forms as I got older switched to "parent/guardian 1 and 2" but the Common App for colleges had mother/father and that really pissed me off to the point where I refused to submit online and mailed them all so I could cross it out and correct it.
Good for you, and that is such a reminder of how something as ordinary as a form that we take for granted could make you or anyone with gay parents upset.

Thanks for your answer
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Old 12-03-2006, 08:10 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by Varitek


Yup I've been wondering too. I'm clearly totally screwed up. I mean what kind of poor student spends hundreds of dollars on CDs, clothes, records, concert tickets etc. for some band, knows way too much about them, and waits out overnight in freezing temperatures to get a good spot in GA?
LOL!

My two cousins grew up with 2 mothers that blended families. My Uncle died in a car accident when my Aunt was divorcing him. My family seemed to have a grudge or just didn't make sure that the relations were open with my Aunt (my uncle is my father's brother) and we didn't see my cousins for a lot of years. When the oldest cousin graduated, his father's side of the family was invited and the communication opened up again.

I have always been bothered that my grandparents, father and aunt (Dad's sister) didn't make sure that they were part of my cousin's lives. Honestly, I don't know all of the details - and in fairness to my family - their reaction could have been as strong if they lost their son/brother when he was heavily charged emotionally because she left for another man instead of for a woman. All I know is, my cousins are totally normal and their mothers are too. Thank you for some insight to their thoughts. I'm 16+ years older than my cousins and haven't gotten into an intimate conversation with them to ask the questions you are answering.
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Old 12-03-2006, 09:26 PM   #28
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I hope you will not be offended by this question...

Do you think if you weren't raised by lesbian parents, you would not be gay?

(Did I word that correctly?)

I'm sorry if this was already answered!
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Old 12-03-2006, 10:10 PM   #29
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Um, I'm pretty straight. Not really sure where you got the idea that I'm gay. The thread's not that long, and I've said in various places that I'm female and have a boyfriend.

Anyway, my sexual orientation is pretty much irrelevant to answering your question, because parents do not make a child gay or straight. If lesbian parents made their daughters gay, then how did lesbians come about in the first place? I do think that if I were gay (and I am thinking of a friend who is bisexual and has lesbian mothers) I would have had a much easier time realizing it, accepting it, and coming out.
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Old 12-03-2006, 10:13 PM   #30
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omg! I am so sorry. I thought you were a guy.

I need to start reading threads better or people's profiles more.

jeesh. I feel stupid.
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