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Old 04-26-2010, 03:03 PM   #91
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am i the only one who can see my posts?
do you really want an answer to this question?
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Old 04-26-2010, 06:33 PM   #92
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Phoenix Mayor: City May Sue AZ Over Immigration Law
Ben Frumin | April 26, 2010, 11:39AM

The city of Phoenix is considering suing Arizona over a controversial new immigration law signed into law on Friday.

The legislation requires law enforcement to demand immigration papers from anyone who they have a "reasonable suspicion" is in the country illegally.

Phoenix Mayor Phil Gordon told the Arizona Republic that the City Council will consider an item tomorrow that would direct their city attorney "to prepare a lawsuit asking for an injunction on this law and challenging it on constitutional grounds." He also called the new law "unconstitutional" and "unenforceable."

On Fox News this morning, Gordon said the new law "doesn't make the state any safer." If anything, Gordon said, "it actually makes it less safe."

That's because police officers may be caught up in enforcing the new law, Gordon said, and, fearing lawsuits over failing to enforce the law or in unfairly enforcing it since there's no functional definition of "reasonable suspicion," may have less time to focus on violent crime and the drug trade.

Gordon also worried that the new law will create "a division within the state that could lead to violence."

Swastikas smeared in beans found on Capitol grounds | Arizona News


Arizona, you got the weight on your shoulders
That’s breaking your back.
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Old 04-26-2010, 07:23 PM   #93
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I am simply following the logical flow of the argument that asserts America is great, America admits that it is great, therefore America should not prevent anyone from partaking in its greatness. You reinforced this position by claiming:
The logic isn't meant to go there, the logic is meant to illustrate a problem here and to make you think about the issue more.
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Old 04-26-2010, 08:18 PM   #94
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According to this logic – and Irvine’s enthusiastic approval – why have border enforcement at all? Why have any immigration process? Why not allow ships and airplanes from all over the world start unloading the millions upon millions of people that want a part of the American dream? If we dare claim we have a great country and the American dream is something worth attaining, then who are we to deny anyone in the world a chance at attaining it? It simply isn’t fair that to the rest of the world (like those starving in Africa) that Mexico is so close.
the logic you've drawn from what irvine and i said doesn't go anywhere near that.
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Old 04-26-2010, 08:25 PM   #95
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the logic you've drawn from what irvine and i said doesn't go anywhere near that.
It's possible that I'm not understandling your conclusion clearly:

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...when you have a country that markets itself on the so-called american dream, that any immigrant can come to america and make a life for themselves, that life is better in america than anywhere else....illegal immigrants seem a bit like an occupational hazard
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Old 04-26-2010, 08:27 PM   #96
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The logic isn't meant to go there, the logic is meant to illustrate a problem here and to make you think about the issue more.
I must politely disagree with you on the role of logic.
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Old 04-26-2010, 08:30 PM   #97
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I must politely disagree with you on the role of logic.
But all you're serving to do is bastardize the real point that's trying to be made here.
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Old 04-26-2010, 08:37 PM   #98
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It's possible that I'm not understandling your conclusion clearly:
no, you're definitely not. i said occupational hazard, i didn't say throw the borders open.

let's say that for a mailman an occupational hazard is being bitten by dogs. by far and away, not desired and very rare, but then you've come along and said that my conclusion is we should set dogs on every mailman every day.

if we have to infer a conclusion out of what i said, it's this. illegal immigrants aren't really desired. because the message always, always being exported is how great america is, you've got to expect people who actually don't know better to want to move there, legally or not. there is no way to stop all illegal immigrants, especially when you have such vast land borders and unsecured ports (hell, even airports - someone could show up under the visa waiver program and vanish into everyday life). take reasonable steps to secure the border, make the legal immigration process more streamlined.

and even then, that's still not the point i was trying to make with the statement.
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Old 04-26-2010, 08:43 PM   #99
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It's possible that I'm not understandling your conclusion clearly:

It's all those

USA !
USA !
We're number 1
We're number 1

chants at international events, coming home to roost.
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Old 04-26-2010, 10:09 PM   #100
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It's all those

USA !
USA !
We're number 1
We're number 1

chants at international events, coming home to roost.
woah


what international sporting events do the usa compete at?
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Old 04-26-2010, 11:37 PM   #101
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you didnt, i was just being a smartass
cool. you know, it actually seems like we're in agreement here.
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Old 04-27-2010, 12:07 AM   #102
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what international sporting events do the usa compete at?
The Olympics?


that's all i've got.
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Old 04-27-2010, 01:01 AM   #103
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According to current law, isn't the federal government obligated to deport illegal aliens and punish businesses that knowingly hire them?
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Old 04-27-2010, 01:06 AM   #104
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"All the problems we face in the United States today can be traced to an unenlightened immigration policy on the part of the American Indian."

- Pat Paulsen
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Old 04-27-2010, 01:25 AM   #105
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and punish businesses that knowingly hire them?
I don't know the specifics on this to be honest.

I asked a friend of mine who is in law enforcement here in TX and I asked him about this subject once.

He said, no one wants to touch the subject because it's a butterfly effect. The cops don't care if they aren't doing harm because they know they've used them for labor on their ranch or in their yards at one point. Politicians don't want to do anything because they know local prices would start climbing if a mass exodus was made, or they know that some company they invest in uses illegal labor at some point. It's a dirty not so secret that here in TX a large percentage of farming uses undocumented labor, lots of smaller hotels, cooks and bus boys, a big portion of construction, and even road construction.

There's a local Republican politician that I know for a fact uses undocumented labor(or at least used to as of 5 years ago), it's one of the reasons he remains so quiet on the subject.

The dirty secret is that very few really want to do anything about it, they know there's very little pay off. But it's a great talking point, it solidifies your xenophobic base.

Reagan understood this...
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