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Old 04-26-2010, 10:43 AM   #76
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now i remember why i don't post here much.
Considering you are a moderator, that doesn't seem like an appropriate response to someone simply for disagreeing with you.
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Old 04-26-2010, 10:46 AM   #77
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am i the only one who can see my posts?
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Old 04-26-2010, 10:47 AM   #78
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Are you in favor of any enforcement of our border? Or are you in favor of an open border - where people may come and go as they please and take advantage of this streamlined process? Do local police and Border Patrol have any role in managing this streamlined process?
Sure, I think there needs to be some enforcement on the border.

I'm just not in favor of big massive walls and all the hypocrisy that comes from those that support it...
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Old 04-26-2010, 10:53 AM   #79
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Sure, I think there needs to be some enforcement on the border.

I'm just not in favor of big massive walls --
Is the current level of security acceptable to you? Or do you think more needs to be done? If not a wall - what would you suggest?
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Old 04-26-2010, 10:56 AM   #80
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when you have a country that markets itself on the so-called american dream, that any immigrant can come to america and make a life for themselves, that life is better in america than anywhere else....illegal immigrants seem a bit like an occupational hazard.
I'm not against immigration - I am against uncontrolled immigration.
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Old 04-26-2010, 11:01 AM   #81
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I'm not against immigration - I am against uncontrolled immigration.
your position is already pretty clear. my response wasn't to that.

what's your solution to uncontrolled immigration then? is it letting cops ask any random person for proof they're there legally? that seems like...well, not trying to close the stable door after the horses have bolted, but certainly an analogy not far off it.
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Old 04-26-2010, 11:21 AM   #82
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when you have a country that markets itself on the so-called american dream, that any immigrant can come to america and make a life for themselves, that life is better in america than anywhere else....illegal immigrants seem a bit like an occupational hazard.


this is very perceptive, and the most interesting thing i've read all morning.
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Old 04-26-2010, 11:23 AM   #83
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Is the current level of security acceptable to you? Or do you think more needs to be done? If not a wall - what would you suggest?
Why is it that I asked you a question and I haven't gotten an answer?

We have for the most part an arbitrary border, you'll always find holes, I suspect even with a wall. I'd be fine with more men and some motion detectors. But if you took away the incentive to cross over illegally then the problem is greatly reduced.

The problem is, people don't want to do that.
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Old 04-26-2010, 01:03 PM   #84
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when you have a country that markets itself on the so-called american dream, that any immigrant can come to america and make a life for themselves, that life is better in america than anywhere else....illegal immigrants seem a bit like an occupational hazard.
According to this logic – and Irvine’s enthusiastic approval – why have border enforcement at all? Why have any immigration process? Why not allow ships and airplanes from all over the world start unloading the millions upon millions of people that want a part of the American dream? If we dare claim we have a great country and the American dream is something worth attaining, then who are we to deny anyone in the world a chance at attaining it? It simply isn’t fair that to the rest of the world (like those starving in Africa) that Mexico is so close.
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Old 04-26-2010, 01:04 PM   #85
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But if you took away the incentive to cross over illegally then the problem is greatly reduced.
I think you'll find plenty of agreement on this point.
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Old 04-26-2010, 01:13 PM   #86
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According to this logic – and Irvine’s enthusiastic approval – why have border enforcement at all? Why have any immigration process? Why not allow ships and airplanes from all over the world start unloading the millions upon millions of people that want a part of the American dream? If we dare claim we have a great country and the American dream is something worth attaining, then who are we to deny anyone in the world a chance at attaining it? It simply isn’t fair that to the rest of the world (like those starving in Africa) that Mexico is so close.


because that would be untenable, and you're taking an untenable position here for the sake of argument, one that no one is advocating.

we make it so that people want to come here. in fact, the history of the United States is marked not even so much by domestic, home-grown greatness, but by what's been achieved by people who have come here -- just off the top of my head, Einstein being a great example.

so, what i think was being expressed is that we've set ourselves up for this sort of problem, so let's have a border, let's enforce our laws, but let's also recognize how invaluable the contributions of immigrants are, the fact that they work very, very hard for little pay, that they commit crimes at a far lower rate than native-born Americans, that their energy revitalizes our neighborhoods, that they are absolutely a fundamental part of life today no matter how they got here, and let's help them become citizens.

if these were Irish immigrants we were talking about, there'd be no such bill in front of us. this is absolutely a "talk American" example of blatant racism culture clash.
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Old 04-26-2010, 01:19 PM   #87
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I think you'll find plenty of agreement on this point.
But there isn't...

You'd rather build a wall than to make citizenship more streamline and affordable. You'd rather arm more men than to grant work visas.
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Old 04-26-2010, 01:25 PM   #88
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because that would be untenable, and you're taking an untenable position here for the sake of argument, one that no one is advocating.
I am simply following the logical flow of the argument that asserts America is great, America admits that it is great, therefore America should not prevent anyone from partaking in its greatness. You reinforced this position by claiming:

Quote:
we've set ourselves up for this sort of problem
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Old 04-26-2010, 01:43 PM   #89
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I am simply following the logical flow of the argument that asserts America is great, America admits that it is great, therefore America should not prevent anyone from partaking in its greatness. You reinforced this position by claiming:


right, you're taking a point to it's furthest possible conclusion, which has no basis in reality.
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Old 04-26-2010, 02:51 PM   #90
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let's hope her "papers" are in that backpack ...

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