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Old 05-04-2010, 01:42 PM   #316
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I'd be willing to bet that the first rally, when Obama was only in office a few months... would not have taken place if it were McCain even though everything else remained the same. Most of the Tea Party couldn't even tell me why they were protesting back then(most can't even now), I think a lot of it was racially motivated. Maybe not so much "I hate black people" type of racism, but more "my status as a white man" may change type of racism.
well obviously it wouldn't have taken place if mccain was in office. mccain is a republican. these are right wing protesters. if whitey mcdemocrat, to be more clear, was in office, they'd be angry about something.

i'm sure many of the people marching in anti-bush protests weren't so clear as to what they were doing, either.

the far left thinks the right are assholes, the far right thinks the left are assholes... when will they learn?
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Old 05-04-2010, 01:50 PM   #317
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well obviously it wouldn't have taken place if mccain was in office. mccain is a republican. these are right wing protesters. if whitey mcdemocrat, to be more clear, was in office, they'd be angry about something.

i'm sure many of the people marching in anti-bush protests weren't so clear as to what they were doing, either.

the far left thinks the right are assholes, the far right thinks the left are assholes... when will they learn?
My point was that by the time they held the first rally, there was no policy that had been placed that Bush hadn't started or that McCain wouldn't have done himself. Those first rallies were not based on policy whatsoever. If McCain had won, we would have been in the same exact place last April 15th, but they wouldn't have said a damn thing. This isn't about principle.
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Old 05-04-2010, 02:07 PM   #318
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My point was that by the time they held the first rally, there was no policy that had been placed that Bush hadn't started or that McCain wouldn't have done himself. Those first rallies were not based on policy whatsoever. If McCain had won, we would have been in the same exact place last April 15th, but they wouldn't have said a damn thing. This isn't about principle.
i never said it was about principle, either. i know we're going off topic here, and there is a thread about this... but glen beck would still have a job if there was a white democrat in office.

is there a portion that are even more enraged that it's a black man? sure, i'm sure there are. but there would be protests regardless just by the fact that there is a democrat in office.

and if in 2012 a republican takes over, the left wing wacko's will start protesting the next day. that's the climate we are in in this country, and that's why nothing of any substance gets accomplished by the federal government.
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Old 05-04-2010, 02:09 PM   #319
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Are we on the side of law keepers, or law breakers?
This right here epitomizes everything that makes me hate conservatives. Everything in black-and-white, no gray area. Ever. You're either with the good, "real" Americans, or you're against them. There's no in-between.
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Old 05-04-2010, 02:12 PM   #320
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This right here epitomizes everything that makes me hate conservatives. Everything in black-and-white, no gray area. Ever. You're either with the good, "real" Americans, or you're against them. There's no in-between.
wouldn't characterizing all conservatives as being like this, then, in turn, violate your own rules for hating conservatives, thus, in turn, make you hate yourself?

i kid, i kid. being an eagles fan is reason enough for self hate.
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Old 05-04-2010, 03:01 PM   #321
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I appreciate the more neutral or thoughtful comments by Indy and
U2387.
(Originally posted by <>)

Thank you!

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Current administration has chosen to ignore the law
Wouldn't go that far.

After all, the stated purpose of this law is to deal with illegal immigration.

Illegal immigrants were actually greater in number before our economy tanked. A lot have gone home.

The ICE arrests/raids/deportations are still going strong, some reports suggest at a faster clip than under the previous administration.

As for the drugs/kidnapping/cartels issue, that has been festering a long time and was ignored by Bush and Calderon. It went from a bad situation to downright scary in 2008 and has not looked back since.

Obama has focused more federal resources on the carte; violence, has hired Napolitano who you may not agree with but she understands the issue, and has had his diplomatic team put pressure on Calderon.

Napolitano, correct me if I am wrong, was the 1st Governor to secure the border with the National Guard.

Again, not asking you to agree with me or her, just saying, if Obama wanted to ignore this issue, he had his pick of homeland security candidates that had no understanding of or experience with it. Border security/cartel violence was one of the biggest stated reasons for picking Napolitano- it signaled a change in direction from terrorism only focus to a secure the borders mission at DHS.

Ignore? No.

Not give as much attention as they could? Ok. But that has to be viewed in the context of the economy, the deficit, 2 wars going on, etc. All I know is I don't want to be Obama right now, and if Bush or any other Republican had this to deal with, I wouldn't envy them either.

There is no easy answer.

All I know is Al Sharpton and friends telling people this law does things it does not and whipping up fear and protest is, from my point of view, about as productive as Glenn Beck lying about some other issue.
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Old 05-04-2010, 04:34 PM   #322
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All I know is Al Sharpton and friends telling people this law does things it does not and whipping up fear and protest is, from my point of view, about as productive as Glenn Beck lying about some other issue.
Sunday morning Sharpton was on This Week on ABC, tag-teaming with Bill Maher and Katrina Vanden Houvel during the roundtable.
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Old 05-04-2010, 05:34 PM   #323
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This right here epitomizes everything that makes me hate conservatives. Everything in black-and-white, no gray area. Ever. You're either with the good, "real" Americans, or you're against them. There's no in-between.
Right, you're either for Obama's big government agenda or you're "about hating a black man in the White House."

Lot's of grey there.
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Old 05-04-2010, 06:07 PM   #324
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and if in 2012 a republican takes over, the left wing wacko's will start protesting the next day. that's the climate we are in in this country, and that's why nothing of any substance gets accomplished by the federal government.
But just to bring it back on topic...

Usually the left wackos only protest things like war, anything other group is too small to count. I can't remember any just protesting because a Republican is in the White House.

But the difference being, I can't remember the left passing useless laws such as this one just to embrace those wackos.
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Old 05-04-2010, 08:16 PM   #325
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Sunday morning Sharpton was on This Week on ABC, tag-teaming with Bill Maher and Katrina Vanden Houvel during the roundtable.
I don't know who the third one is, but this is pretty much why I don't watch TV.
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Old 05-04-2010, 11:42 PM   #326
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Sunday morning Sharpton was on This Week on ABC, tag-teaming with Bill Maher and Katrina Vanden Houvel during the roundtable.
Sharpton is nothing but a lying criminal.

Being in public life still and being taken seriously after the Tawana Bradley case in the late 1980s is really inexcusable.

Anyone who talks to Sharpton or legitimizes him is bringing themselves down.

He is nothing but a race baiting fire starter.

I dislike him as much as I dislike Rush Limbaugh.
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Old 05-05-2010, 01:54 AM   #327
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Right, you're either for Obama's big government agenda or you're "about hating a black man in the White House."

Lot's of grey there.
There are legitimate concerns about what Barack Obama's doing, but in the discourse that's happening, they get exaggerated beyond recognition.
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Old 05-05-2010, 01:55 AM   #328
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wouldn't characterizing all conservatives as being like this, then, in turn, violate your own rules for hating conservatives, thus, in turn, make you hate yourself?

i kid, i kid. being an eagles fan is reason enough for self hate.
I think a black-and-white outlook is one of the main tenants of being a conservative today, so I don't think it's exactly a "broad brushstrokes" situation here since I think that's the main thing conservatives share.

And it's the main thing that caused me to change my outlook from a conservative one to a liberal one.
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Old 05-05-2010, 08:56 AM   #329
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Obama's big government agenda

Lot's of grey there.



were you for W. Bush's expansion of executive power or against it?
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Old 05-05-2010, 10:04 AM   #330
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Think Progress

Slain Cop’s Widow Accuses Arizona Law Proponents Of Invoking Her Husband’s Memory For Political Gain

Julie Erfle, the widow of a police officer who was killed by an undocumented immigrant and whose name has often been invoked by supporters of Arizona’s new immigration law, is accusing the bill’s supporters of “using her husband’s name to benefit politically and financially.” Erfle is asking lawmakers to cut through the “rhetoric” and “fear-mongering.” The Arizona Republic reports:

The new law established by Senate Bill 1070 would have done nothing, she [Erfle] said, to prevent 22-year-old Erik Jovani Martinez – a Mexican national and gang member with a history of drug abuse, who had been deported from the U.S. before the incident – from shooting her husband in the face during an altercation on 24th Street near Pinchot Drive.

“I really don’t think it would have,” Erfle said. “I don’t think it presents a solution to the problem. I think it’s a Band-Aid approach.

“My concern with this bill, though, is what it does to law enforcement,” she said. “This bill puts them under a microscope. I feel it’s a no-win situation for an officer. I don’t think it keeps officers safe.” [...] “My opinion on it is that this isn’t the solution, that we need something on the federal level,” she said.


Several Arizona police officers themselves appear to agree with Erfle. Last week, Pima County Sheriff Clarence Dupnik, who has been a cop for 52 years, told local TV station KGUN9 that the law is “racist,” “digusting,” and “unnecessary,” and he won’t enforce it. The Arizona Association of Chiefs of Police and the president of the Arizona Fraternal Order of Police have come out strongly against the law. The first lawsuit against SB-1070 was filed last week by a 15-year veteran of the Tucson police force, Martin Escobar.

Erfle has repeatedly stated that her husband would be “infuriated” to hear his name being used by politicians promoting Arizona’s immigration law if he were still alive. Erfle began speaking out against the Arizona bill as early as March of this year when she told the Arizona Republic that it “would be nice to bring the rhetoric down. It would be nice to see a solution.”
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