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Old 10-11-2009, 08:45 PM   #46
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i had a wonderful 10 day trip to Morocco in february of 2001. traveled all over, ate wonderful food, did a camping trip into the Sahara. loved it.

i guess i can do the same thing in Iraq now!

Pretty much. Iraq is safer than Mexico and plenty of folks travel there.
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Old 10-12-2009, 03:09 AM   #47
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i had a wonderful 10 day trip to Morocco in february of 2001. traveled all over, ate wonderful food, did a camping trip into the Sahara. loved it.

i guess i can do the same thing in Iraq now!
I'm sure there's a whole industry just waiting to go nuts, but at the moment, there's no such thing as a tourist visa for Iraq. You'll need to join Blackwater.

I'm going to a wedding in Morocco in May, going to spend a week before and after travelling around. Can't wait.
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Old 10-12-2009, 10:36 AM   #48
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I'm sure there's a whole industry just waiting to go nuts, but at the moment, there's no such thing as a tourist visa for Iraq. You'll need to join Blackwater.

but why? we have numbers that say that Iraq is just as good as Morocco, seems to me that there's therefore no difference whatsoever between the two countries, because, after all, we have numbers. numbers! those tell you the truth because they're numbers.

you should tell your friend to get married in Baghdad.
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Old 10-12-2009, 03:41 PM   #49
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after having 150,000+ troops, give or take, on the ground for over 6 years, after 4,500+ american deaths in Iraq, after a trillion dollars spent ... this is the best Iraq can do?
Those claiming that the entire operation was a total failure, and Iraq would never survive as a country should be the most impressed with the new numbers and index's from the UN Human Development Report on Iraq. The facts stand in stark contrast to those who proposed that Iraq should be divided into three countries, and makes one wonder why those believing Iraq could not survive as a country are now asking ...."is this the best Iraq can do?".

Iraq is still developing and rebuilding its infrustructure so even though the current state has surpassed most anti-war critics predictions for Iraq by several light years, this is really just the beginning.

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the country was cherry-picked for invasion precisely because (among many reasons) it's infrastructure was quite good
Nope, this is why Iraq was invaded:


YouTube - President Clinton orders attack on Iraq

"The hard fact is, that so long as Saddam remains in power, he threatens the well being of his people, the peace of his region, the security of the world. The best way to end that threat, once and for all, is with a new Iraqi government, a government ready to live in peace with his neighbors, a government that respects the rights of its people."

President Bill Clinton


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and it was a reasonably "advanced" nation in comparison to it's neighbors
Well, being ruled by Saddam for 25 years and considering all the invasions, attacks on other country's, sanctions, and his own domestic violence against the people, did a lot of damage to the country and its going to take some time for Iraq to rebuild from this, although as has been shown it has made tremendous progress.

Here is how Iraq's neighbors currently rank in standard of living compared to Iraq:


Kuwait - #31 - 0.916
Saudi Arabia - #59 -0.843
Turkey - #79 - 0.806
Iran - #88 - 0.782
Jordan - #96 - 0.770
Syria - #107 - 0.742

Iraq - #129 - 0.671

Although things have dramatically improved in recent years, it will take many more years for Iraq to achieve its full potential.
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Old 10-12-2009, 03:58 PM   #50
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but why? we have numbers that say that Iraq is just as good as Morocco, seems to me that there's therefore no difference whatsoever between the two countries, because, after all, we have numbers. numbers! those tell you the truth because they're numbers.

you should tell your friend to get married in Baghdad.



Everyone uses numbers. Everyone is ok with Australia being at #2 on the index, while the USA is at #13. But then some turn around and decide to ignore them or claim the numbers are meaningless when they refute ones deeply held assumption about an issue.
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Old 10-12-2009, 04:43 PM   #51
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Iraq needs better beaches.
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Old 10-12-2009, 05:31 PM   #52
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And music festivals.
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Old 10-12-2009, 06:46 PM   #53
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i'd be happy if the Shiite death squads would stop executing gay people by gluing their rectums shut and then force feeding them laxatives until their insides ripped apart and they bled to death internally.
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Old 10-13-2009, 08:08 AM   #54
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I'd be happy to see a source on that.
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Old 10-13-2009, 08:10 AM   #55
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you know, when two tribes got to war a point is all you can score.
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Old 10-13-2009, 12:30 PM   #56
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I'd be happy to see a source on that.


How a Few New Yorkers Are Trying to Save the Hunted Gay Men of Iraq -- New York Magazine
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Old 10-13-2009, 08:22 PM   #57
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thats Bushes fault of course
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Old 10-14-2009, 10:38 AM   #58
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thats Bushes fault of course

it's a side effect of Bush's invasion, absolutely. and we appreciate your concern.

but let's continue to think that Iraq is Morocco!
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Old 10-14-2009, 10:42 AM   #59
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Pretty much. Iraq is safer than Mexico and plenty of folks travel there.
time to invade Mexico, I guess...


SPRING BREAK!
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Old 10-14-2009, 10:49 AM   #60
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Well, the UNDP certainly does not object in making the comparison, at least when it comes to life expectancy and education.



Actually, this is the part of Iraq where there is still some significant tension and violence around Mosul and Kirkuk. Plus, the "pure" Kurdish area's only represent about 10% of the country.



Only 96 civilians were murdered across Iraq in September compared to an average of 1,350 in the United States for that same time period. I also don't see any listing of attacks or murders in refugee camps for September 2009.



Are you claiming that there are no area's of poverty in Morocco or people that find themselves in the same situations that a refugee would? Are you claiming that every part of Morocco is safe?

I'm sure there are things that happen in the United States that you won't see in Morocco either. It does not change the fact that overall, the United States has a higher standard of living than Morocco.



Or maybe they would agree. One of the greatest disparities that puts Iraq ahead of Morocco is the education level. The literacy rate in Morocco is lower than Iraq. Its just a fact. Instead of being offended, I'm sure many Moroccans would agree and would like to see more done to improve the education level in their country.

In addition, I'm sure most educated Moroccans are aware of Iraq's much greater possession of natural resources and know its only a matter of time before Iraq's GDP figures start to jump way ahead of Morrocco's.
Haven't been at work in a while. Need to ask why that area has deteriorated so bad.
I'm not saying that Morocco is a dream of a country for everyone. I just claim that cold figures tell you part of a picture, but not all detail. There is also huge aspects that make quality of life you cannot measure that easily, which will give the people of a country their own feeling about quality of life. This is shown in the simple fact, e.g., that standard of living is not that strongly correlated with the happyness of a country's citizens.
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