Are today's mainstream politicians to the right or left of FDR's template? - U2 Feedback

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Old 07-25-2011, 09:00 PM   #1
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Are today's mainstream politicians to the right or left of FDR's template?

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"In our day these economic truths have become accepted as self-evident. We have accepted, so to speak, a second Bill of Rights under which a new basis of security and prosperity can be established for all—regardless of station, race, or creed.

Among these are:

*The right to a useful and remunerative job in the industries or shops or farms or mines of the nation;

*The right to earn enough to provide adequate food and clothing and recreation;

*The right of every farmer to raise and sell his products at a return which will give him and his family a decent living;

*The right of every businessman, large and small, to trade in an atmosphere of freedom from unfair competition and domination by monopolies at home or abroad;

*The right of every family to a decent home;

*The right to adequate medical care and the opportunity to achieve and enjoy good health;

*The right to adequate protection from the economic fears of old age, sickness, accident, and unemployment;

*The right to a good education.

All of these rights spell security. And after this war is won we must be prepared to move forward, in the implementation of these rights, to new goals of human happiness and well-being.

Americas own rightful place in the world depends in large part upon how fully these and similar rights have been carried into practice for all our citizens. For unless there is security here at home there cannot be lasting peace in the world.”
---FDR, 1944
Food for thought, it seems to me that much of what is listed above would be described as socialism in today's environment.
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Old 07-25-2011, 09:11 PM   #2
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Food for thought, it seems to me that much of what is listed above would be described as socialism in today's environment.
Yup.
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Old 07-25-2011, 09:23 PM   #3
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I would've described it as socialism then, too.
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Old 07-25-2011, 11:53 PM   #4
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I would've described it as socialism then, too.
Doubt it.
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Old 07-26-2011, 02:47 AM   #5
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...Did you seriously just tell me what I would think?
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Old 07-26-2011, 07:17 AM   #6
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...Did you seriously just tell me what I would think?
Have you ever described Reagan, Bush Sr or Bush Jr as socialists?
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Old 07-26-2011, 11:37 AM   #7
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Reagan, no. But Bush Jr, and Sr both spent money like a drunk sailor at a brothel, so I'm not sure I'd consider them socialistic (I'd have to have a bit more knowledge of their policies than I do to make that decision) but I'd definitely consider them extremely careless with the nation's finances.
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Old 07-26-2011, 11:59 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Caleb8844
Reagan, no. But Bush Jr, and Sr both spent money like a drunk sailor at a brothel, so I'm not sure I'd consider them socialistic (I'd have to have a bit more knowledge of their policies than I do to make that decision) but I'd definitely consider them extremely careless with the nation's finances.
There's a consistency issue with many republicans today, they have new found "principles" with no sense of context. If you were to call that socialism, like you said, then in order to be consistent you would have to call Reagan a socialist.
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Old 07-26-2011, 12:05 PM   #9
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Explain to me exactly what policies republicans would consider socialistic thatReagan instituted. Not being argumentative, I just would like to know if they're are things I'm not aware of, or if we just disagree on this.
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Old 07-26-2011, 12:12 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Caleb8844
Explain to me exactly what policies republicans would consider socialistic thatReagan instituted. Not being argumentative, I just would like to know if they're are things I'm not aware of, or if we just disagree on this.
How about this; you show me one of those rights on the list that Reagan was against, didn't sign or maintain policy regarding? And I'll show you your consistency problem. Sound fair?
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Old 07-26-2011, 12:30 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Caleb8844 View Post
Reagan, no. But Bush Jr, and Sr both spent money like a drunk sailor at a brothel, so I'm not sure I'd consider them socialistic (I'd have to have a bit more knowledge of their policies than I do to make that decision) but I'd definitely consider them extremely careless with the nation's finances.
I don't really understand how you're linking spending and socialism.

And besides, doesn't Reagan easily pummel them all in terms of spending/deficit? Or did Bush Jr manage to trump even him?
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Old 07-26-2011, 12:47 PM   #12
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*The right to earn enough to provide adequate food and clothing and recreation;


It's hard to find a particular quote from Reagan about this, but he IS the only president to not raise minimum wage. So that says something.


*The right of every businessman, large and small, to trade in an atmosphere of freedom from unfair competition and domination by monopolies at home or abroad;


He did break up some monopolies, so I'll give you that.


*The right to adequate medical care and the opportunity to achieve and enjoy good health;



Ronald Reagan Speaks Out Against Socialized Medicine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia <---I'd say it's a safe bet that he didn't support the idea of government right health care.


*The right to adequate protection from the economic fears of old age, sickness, accident, and unemployment;


He had suggested privatizing socail security, or making it optional. So it doesn't appear as though he wanted government too involved in those matters either


My point is, regardless of whether he believed in these rights, he didn't view the central government as the best means to supply them.
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Old 07-26-2011, 01:00 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Earnie Shavers View Post
I don't really understand how you're linking spending and socialism.

And besides, doesn't Reagan easily pummel them all in terms of spending/deficit? Or did Bush Jr manage to trump even him?
I associate the two because, in my mind, more government spending leads to more government control.

Change in debt in terms of GDP during Reagan's first term: +11.3%
during his second term: +9.3%
during George Bush Sr's term: +13%
during George Bush Jr's first term: +7.1%
during his second term: +20.7%
during Barack Obama's first YEAR: +9%. Extrapolating that for his full term (which is, admittedly, not an extremely accurate practice) would have him increasing the debt percentage by 36%, which is completely unprecedented.
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Old 07-26-2011, 01:17 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Caleb8844 View Post
*The right to earn enough to provide adequate food and clothing and recreation;


It's hard to find a particular quote from Reagan about this, but he IS the only president to not raise minimum wage. So that says something.
He gave amnesty to how many illegal citizens? And part of his reasoning was so that they had the opportunity to earn.


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Originally Posted by Caleb8844 View Post

*The right to adequate medical care and the opportunity to achieve and enjoy good health;



Ronald Reagan Speaks Out Against Socialized Medicine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia <---I'd say it's a safe bet that he didn't support the idea of government right health care.
Reagan cut taxes in 1981, but then raised them in 4 other times. He raised them in 1983 to pay for Social Security and Medicare.


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Originally Posted by Caleb8844 View Post
*The right to adequate protection from the economic fears of old age, sickness, accident, and unemployment;


He had suggested privatizing socail security, or making it optional. So it doesn't appear as though he wanted government too involved in those matters either
I'm sorry, did he privatize Social Security? No, in fact he never made one move to do so. Hell even W went on a 4 state speaking tour to try and gain support for it. But he failed miserably, even in his own party.


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My point is, regardless of whether he believed in these rights, he didn't view the central government as the best means to supply them.
You need to learn a little more about Reagan. The real Reagan, not his myth. So if what you said is true, Reagan is a socialist by your definition.
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Old 07-26-2011, 01:20 PM   #15
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I associate the two because, in my mind, more government spending leads to more government control.

Change in debt in terms of GDP during Reagan's first term: +11.3%
during his second term: +9.3%
during George Bush Sr's term: +13%
during George Bush Jr's first term: +7.1%
during his second term: +20.7%
during Barack Obama's first YEAR: +9%. Extrapolating that for his full term (which is, admittedly, not an extremely accurate practice) would have him increasing the debt percentage by 36%, which is completely unprecedented.
Now look at these numbers closely and tell me honestly if you believe they tell the whole story?

Wow, look at those Reagan numbers... Where are Clinton's numbers?
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