Are babies racist? - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind
Click Here to Login
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 09-10-2009, 09:56 PM   #1
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
maycocksean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: The Most Important State in the Union
Posts: 4,882
Local Time: 11:23 AM
Are babies racist?

Even Babies Discriminate: A NurtureShock Excerpt. | Newsweek Life | Newsweek.com

Fascinating and insightful article. It really emphasizes something I've longed believed. . .that the well-intentioned tendency among many whites to pretend that race doesn't exist and that racism isn't a problem anymore can actually be quite damaging. . .

It's a long read, but worth it. I'd love to hear anyone's thoughts.
__________________

__________________
maycocksean is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2009, 10:31 PM   #2
Rock n' Roll Doggie
VIP PASS
 
Pearl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: NYC
Posts: 5,653
Local Time: 12:23 PM
I read the same article when I got the magazine in the mail today.

I remember reading years ago that human beings are attracted to those who look like them, not just racially, but also in the face. I also remember reading that when we are told a story about someone, we automatically think that person is of the same race as we are.

So, is it bigoted to prefer your own race? Its hard to say. It could mean racism, but does it also show how we've evolved? I mean, it's only been in recently in human history that society have been multiracial. Could it be that our brains are wired to prefer our own race because our ancestors saw that one race?

I hope I made sense.
__________________

__________________
Pearl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2009, 10:42 PM   #3
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 40,687
Local Time: 10:23 AM
I honestly think it comes down to a matter of naturally being "attracted" to what you know. Which may mean being naturally attracted to those that look like you. I didn't read the whole article, but hope to when I have time. But were any of the subjects adopted children of different races than the parents?

I remember visiting a family friend's baby once, the child's whole family is olive skin, dark hair. That baby looked at me and screamed like a thunderstorm. I was the first pale redhead she'd ever seen. That whole day I had to stay out of her peripheral sight or she would cry. Two months later, I saw her again and no problem, in fact she's taken quite a liking to me now.
__________________
BVS is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2009, 10:47 PM   #4
Rock n' Roll Doggie
VIP PASS
 
Pearl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: NYC
Posts: 5,653
Local Time: 12:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BVS View Post

I remember visiting a family friend's baby once, the child's whole family is olive skin, dark hair. That baby looked at me and screamed like a thunderstorm. I was the first pale redhead she'd ever seen. That whole day I had to stay out of her peripheral sight or she would cry. Two months later, I saw her again and no problem, in fact she's taken quite a liking to me now.
That reminds me of an article about Angelina Jolie. When she was in Africa, she approached a woman with her baby on her lap. The baby started to cry hysterically when it saw Jolie, and the mother explained that Jolie was the first white person the baby ever saw.
__________________
Pearl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2009, 10:55 PM   #5
Rock n' Roll Doggie
FOB
 
Kieran McConville's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Auto Dafoe
Posts: 9,600
Local Time: 02:23 AM
A preference for the familiar is probably hardwired into our nature... it's what we do about it that matters.

True enough that multiracial society is a relatively recent occurance, after all the Roman Empire is one minute to midnight on our evolutionary clock. I'd say the real fact of it all is that like all living creatures we are not accustomed to thinking on extremely long timescales. The fact that (apparently) all the ostensible races may have descended from a relatively homogenous bottleneck population in north Africa 100,000 or so years ago, if it is a fact, nonetheless doesn't really register on the intuitive level. If people seem different, they seem different.

So in my view all of that is base human nature. When it becomes a petrie dish for ahistorical racial supremacy narratives and other assorted vileness, is when the problems begin.
__________________
Kieran McConville is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2009, 11:01 PM   #6
Blue Crack Distributor
 
VintagePunk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: In a dry and waterless place
Posts: 55,732
Local Time: 11:23 AM
What a fasinating and very accurate article. Thanks for posting Sean, I enjoyed it a lot.

The researchers covered a lot of ground that I'm familiar with. All people categorize every person and thing in their environments at all times. It's how we, as humans, make sense of our environments without mentally overtaxing ourselves. These categorizations often take place preconsciously and very rapidly, and they occur starting with broad and general attributes (with race, of course, being one of the broadest) and move to the specific. It's been hypothsized that this categorization we engage in is an evolutionary mechanism, from when early man had to make these rapid judgments so that they could act and avoid being killed by a predator or an unfriendly outsider. It stands to reason that this begins at a very, very young age, as the author spoke of when mentioning that six month olds spend more time looking at the faces of people from different races.

I also thought it interesting when the author spoke of having to explicitly talk to children about race in terms that they can understand, as opposed to speaking in a general, vague manner. If parents are not part of a racially diverse circle, how else are the children going to learn that those who are racially different from them are as worthy as they are? This makes intuitive sense to me.

I can't understand the reluctance to talk about racial or cultural differences. Maybe that's a result of the society I was raised in. Canada is thought of as a cultural mosaic, whereby people of different races live side by side, different but equal; where racial and cultural differences are acknowledged and embraced, theoretically. On the other hand, America is still known for being a melting pot, where races are supposed to assimilate and come together. As much as this term and way of thinking is outdated, it seems that it's still a concept that is accepted in many parts of America.

All of this reminds me of a thread from my very early days as a member of Interference. Someone asked why U2 seems to attract a primarily white fanbase in the US. I thought that this thread would provide a really good basis for discussion about cultural preferences and the like, but very soon after it got really ugly, with the thread starter being accused of being a racist, and many people denied that there are racial preferences when it comes to music. Granted, there are probably more differences in preference within group than there are between group, but still, differences exist, and I don't understand why it's offensive to talk about them. I guess it's maybe the way that people overcompensate for generations of racism - they do so by denying that differences exist. I think it's an honest but misguided effort to bring about racial equality, to have race not matter anymore. We are one AND the same. Except we're not, so why pretend we are?

Just some of my off the cuff initial thoughts. Interested to read what the rest of you might have to say.
__________________
VintagePunk is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2009, 10:40 PM   #7
Refugee
 
AliEnvy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 2,320
Local Time: 04:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kieran McConville View Post
A preference for the familiar is probably hardwired into our nature... it's what we do about it that matters.


And you can only do something truly constructive about it when you openly acknowledge the tendency.

EDIT: I read VP's post after I wrote this, she put much more (and better) effort behind articulating the idea than I did.
__________________
AliEnvy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2009, 12:25 AM   #8
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Tempe, Az USA
Posts: 12,856
Local Time: 09:23 AM
It's not a stretch that some in FYM would label babies racists.

<>
__________________
diamond is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2009, 03:22 PM   #9
Blue Crack Distributor
 
VintagePunk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: In a dry and waterless place
Posts: 55,732
Local Time: 11:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by diamond View Post
It's not a stretch that some in FYM would label babies racists.

<>
You always find a way to raise the level of discourse, don't you?
__________________
VintagePunk is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2009, 06:53 PM   #10
Blue Crack Addict
 
deep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: A far distance down.
Posts: 28,501
Local Time: 08:23 AM
I don't know if babies are born racists

but I did read somewhere that many baby girls are born with lesbian tendencies.
__________________
deep is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2009, 07:52 PM   #11
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 40,687
Local Time: 10:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by deep View Post
I don't know if babies are born racists

but I did read somewhere that many baby girls are born with lesbian tendencies.
Dr Dobson says that can be fixed with a rubberband.
__________________
BVS is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2009, 08:28 PM   #12
ONE
love, blood, life
 
adamswildhoney's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Somewhere in NorCal
Posts: 10,333
Local Time: 08:23 AM
I think it also has to do with the way the person holding them is looking at them. Babies can easily detect when someone is nervous, anxious, scared, annoyed and so on by them.
__________________
adamswildhoney is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2009, 02:55 AM   #13
Forum Moderator
 
yolland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 7,471
Local Time: 05:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by VintagePunk View Post
I can't understand the reluctance to talk about racial or cultural differences. Maybe that's a result of the society I was raised in. Canada is thought of as a cultural mosaic, whereby people of different races live side by side, different but equal; where racial and cultural differences are acknowledged and embraced, theoretically. On the other hand, America is still known for being a melting pot, where races are supposed to assimilate and come together. As much as this term and way of thinking is outdated, it seems that it's still a concept that is accepted in many parts of America.
I do think there's something to this, but the unique history of antiblack racism in the US shouldn't be underestimated as a factor in these differences, either. For almost two centuries black Americans were brought here only by force and only for the purpose of serving as, frankly, draft animals for white people, not as actual fellow humans with "cultures" worthy of note from which they might "assimilate"; and the impact of that dynamic and the racial ideologies supporting it, the perception of it as our national 'original sin,' distinguish black/white tension from all other forms of racial tension in US society (let alone the related impact of a subsequent century's worth of institutional segregation, and the racial ideologies supporting that). So it can be a bit more loaded here to get into generalizing about differences between subcultures--particularly when those overlap with racial differences, and most of all when they overlap with the black/white racial distinction specifically, because of the history of that kind of distinction-drawing in our country. It's not just the influence of the "melting pot" metaphor (and actually, since probably the 1970s you hardly ever hear that phrase used here anymore...nonetheless, the thinking behind it is clearly still out there).
Quote:
Originally Posted by maycocksean View Post
It really emphasizes something I've longed believed. . .that the well-intentioned tendency among many whites to pretend that race doesn't exist and that racism isn't a problem anymore can actually be quite damaging. . .
I'm not so sure it could unproblematically be labeled "well-intentioned." Because I think on some level it usually evinces a desire to evade parental accountability for what ought to be a standard part of the moral nurturing of one's children. To protect one's image as an irreproachably 'neutral' white person who could never be faulted for anything (and whom only an 'angry, irrational' black person could disagree with) where racial sensibilities are concerned.
__________________
yolland [at] interference.com


μελετώ αποτυγχάνειν. -- Διογένης της Σινώπης
yolland is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2009, 04:21 AM   #14
Blue Crack Distributor
 
VintagePunk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: In a dry and waterless place
Posts: 55,732
Local Time: 11:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by yolland View Post
I do think there's something to this, but the unique history of antiblack racism in the US shouldn't be underestimated as a factor in these differences, either. For almost two centuries black Americans were brought here only by force and only for the purpose of serving as, frankly, draft animals for white people, not as actual fellow humans with "cultures" worthy of note from which they might "assimilate"; and the impact of that dynamic and the racial ideologies supporting it, the perception of it as our national 'original sin,' distinguish black/white tension from all other forms of racial tension in US society (let alone the related impact of a subsequent century's worth of institutional segregation, and the racial ideologies supporting that). So it can be a bit more loaded here to get into generalizing about differences between subcultures--particularly when those overlap with racial differences, and most of all when they overlap with the black/white racial distinction specifically, because of the history of that kind of distinction-drawing in our country. It's not just the influence of the "melting pot" metaphor (and actually, since probably the 1970s you hardly ever hear that phrase used here anymore...nonetheless, the thinking behind it is clearly still out there).
I understand all that, and perhaps I should have said that my "within group differences/between group differences" statement obviously applies to a lot more than just taste in music, but the fact remains that there are some tendencies between cultures and races that are different, in general. History, and the effort to recover from that history does make generalizing a tricky thing, but the extent to which these seemingly very progressive-minded people have difficulty in speaking about race to their children except in the vaguest of terms, I found really surprising.

Part of me wonders if it's not less a case of them being uncomfortable with race, and more a case of their underestimating the ability of their children to comprehend something that they themselves probably see as being very complex and loaded.
__________________
VintagePunk is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2009, 07:13 AM   #15
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Zoomerang96's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: canada
Posts: 13,459
Local Time: 10:23 AM
yes, babies are racist.
__________________

__________________
Zoomerang96 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Church vs State: JW babies given blood transfusions Judah Free Your Mind Archive 8 02-02-2007 09:29 PM
"Designer" Babies Designed To Have Disabilities MrsSpringsteen Free Your Mind Archive 23 02-02-2007 12:39 PM
Hospital Gags babies! Justin24 Free Your Mind Archive 6 02-01-2007 10:23 PM
Stephen Harper eats babies. Halifax Free Your Mind Archive 2 05-19-2006 01:09 PM
Unborn babies carry pollutants, study finds U2Girl1978 Free Your Mind Archive 45 07-14-2005 04:13 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:23 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com