Anti-Tax Tea Parties Held Across U.S.

[zooropop40]

the talk of CO2 has been involved for years, yet it's only recently that conservatives are coming back with the "it can't be harmful, it's natural" argument. Did someone just recently give them a 5th grade science refresher? I find it ammusing.

haha me too...

The are many things that are "natural" and harmful. Who do they think they are fooling? ... oh yea, I forgot...

Why is it that the GOP has to fight against science and evidence (AKA reality) all the time?

 

[BVS]

Why is it that the GOP has to fight against science and evidence (AKA reality) all the time?

It really comes down to preserving their status quo, they will fight tooth and nail in order to maintain their 1950's "Leave it to Beaver" revisionist history lifestyle. Don't you get it things were simpler then, people just believed that the earth was created in 144 hours, gays were only Hollywood, the blacks and brown assimilated to them, and the earth was going to last forever, or at least until supply side Jesus came back...

They will deny science, facts, and good ole common sense until they realize that once again they are on the wrong side of history, and then they'll just pretend they were for it the whole time.

 

[zooropop40]

It really comes down to preserving their status quo, they will fight tooth and nail in order to maintain their 1950's "Leave it to Beaver" revisionist history lifestyle.

I said this exact quote, to the letter, earlier today...even with the leave it to beaver example

...I guess we are on the same wavelength

 

[2861U2]

the conservative approach which is more times than not based somewhat on racism.

Please tell me what evidence you have to back that up. Because frankly, I'm sick of people like you practically calling a racist anyone who wants our borders enforced, our laws enforced, less criminals on the street, people not to cut in line of those who have been waiting years to come here legally, and less stress put on this country's already stressed-to-the-max services and entitlements. For the last time, my position on illegal immigration (and that of about 99% of conservatives) is NOT based on race. I love Mexicans. I love Canadians. I love everyone who isn't a criminal and doesn't want to harm this country. But for God's sake, come here legally. Get in line. Obey the law. BVS, with all due respect, if I hear you make this racism argument one more time I swear my head is going to explode. So please, please provide for me some pretty damn convincing evidence that the position on illegal immigration of an overwhelming number of conservatives is based on hatred and racism and xenophobia.

There's a few of us... but not enough to really significantly bring the state's IQ up.

So nice... so tolerant of opposing beliefs... so accepting of people that aren't like you and opinions that aren't like yours... By the way, Texas ranks right in the middle of the pack as far as overall intelligence, whereas a state like California is 4th from the bottom. So if you're fighting to raise a state's IQ, I think your service could be better incorporated elsewhere...

people just believed that the earth was created in 144 hours,

As far as I know, that's a very, very small minority of Christians. Biblical scholars study that question their entire lives. Most Christians in America do not believe the literal 24-hour day interpretation.

Sometimes this forum confuses me. Why bother attacking conservatism? If everyone supposedly loves Barack Obama and agrees with the "progressive" viewpoint on everything and hates conservatives, why bother going after them? If Democrats will win every election for the next 100 years and conservatism is dead and gone for good, then you win. What's the point? Unless of course, deep down you don't actually believe any of that, and you feel threatened for 2010 and 2012. And if that's the case, at least admit it. Because people on this forum and Keith Olbermann and Daily Kos spending all their time on conservatives just isn't making any sense to me, especially when Obama isn't exactly living up to his campaign promises. I think it's clear that liberals are already fearing upcoming races. As of right now, if the election were today, Harry Reid would lose, Chris Dodd would lose, and there would be a Republican governor of New York and New Jersey, among others.

 

[zooropop40]

Because people on this forum and Keith Olbermann and Daily Kos spending all their time on conservatives just isn't making any sense to me, especially when Obama isn't exactly living up to his campaign promises. I think it's clear that liberals are already fearing upcoming races. As of right now, if the election were today, Harry Reid would lose, Chris Dodd would lose, and there would be a Republican governor of New York and New Jersey, among others.

Really?!?

Obama actually is living up to many of his campaign promises, and his approval ratings are pretty high right now...I think it is more that people are fed up with people like Bush, cheney, limbaugh, etc. than anything else. The republicans, who have been complaining more than anything, are in no position to complain after the past 8 years of destroying this country.

 

[BVS]

Please tell me what evidence you have to back that up. Because frankly, I'm sick of people like you practically calling a racist anyone who wants our borders enforced, our laws enforced, less criminals on the street, people not to cut in line of those who have been waiting years to come here legally, and less stress put on this country's already stressed-to-the-max services and entitlements. For the last time, my position on illegal immigration (and that of about 99% of conservatives) is NOT based on race. I love Mexicans. I love Canadians. I love everyone who isn't a criminal and doesn't want to harm this country. But for God's sake, come here legally. Get in line. Obey the law. BVS, with all due respect, if I hear you make this racism argument one more time I swear my head is going to explode. So please, please provide for me some pretty damn convincing evidence that the position on illegal immigration of an overwhelming number of conservatives is based on hatred and racism and xenophobia.

First of all never did I say all conservatives. Secondly, it's based on countless posts in here, and things I hear and read everyday.

For example; you say:

I love everyone who isn't a criminal and doesn't want to harm this country.

The truth is, the majority of illegal immigrants are hard working people who just want better lives and are not criminals. Their only crime is coming here without the proper paperwork, that's it. If you knew the process you would understand why, the majority are just people who want to better their lives and another day of waiting may cause them to lose their child. So this constant tying into criminals is part of the problem, you see an issue and not a person. So excuse me if I see this as racism or xenophobia.

Illegal immigration is not the problem, and a wall is not the solution. The real issue of crime coming from over the border is a much bigger issue that for the most part is being ignored.

Geraldo Rivera has extensive knowledge on this subject and ripped up Hannity a couple weeks ago on his radio show, he gave several examples of how the conservative backlash against immigration is ignoring the real problem... How they are busting the innocent people working jobs no one wants to work, even in this economy, and ignoring the real criminals. I'll see if I can find a link.

So nice... so tolerant of opposing beliefs... so accepting of people that aren't like you and opinions that aren't like yours... By the way, Texas ranks right in the middle of the pack as far as overall intelligence, whereas a state like California is 4th from the bottom. So if you're fighting to raise a state's IQ, I think your service could be better incorporated elsewhere...

You obviously don't recognize a joke when you see one. I love Texas, but we have some extremely outspoken people lately that are just dumb as dirt, and Barton is one of them. It has nothing to do with BELIEF. This has to do with facts, and he doesn't have a grasp on them...

As far as I know, that's a very, very small minority of Christians. Biblical scholars study that question their entire lives. Most Christians in America do not believe the literal 24-hour day interpretation.

Once again somewhat of a hyperbole... But many still believe in creation as fact and not allegory, when facts speak otherwise. Did you read Diamond's theory as to how fossils got here?

Sometimes this forum confuses me. Why bother attacking conservatism? If everyone supposedly loves Barack Obama and agrees with the "progressive" viewpoint on everything and hates conservatives, why bother going after them? If Democrats will win every election for the next 100 years and conservatism is dead and gone for good, then you win. What's the point? Unless of course, deep down you don't actually believe any of that, and you feel threatened for 2010 and 2012. And if that's the case, at least admit it. Because people on this forum and Keith Olbermann and Daily Kos spending all their time on conservatives just isn't making any sense to me, especially when Obama isn't exactly living up to his campaign promises. I think it's clear that liberals are already fearing upcoming races. As of right now, if the election were today, Harry Reid would lose, Chris Dodd would lose, and there would be a Republican governor of New York and New Jersey, among others.

I honestly have no clue what you are talking about... Who has claimed Dems will win anything for the next 100 years? You buy into the Rush talk far too much...

What campaign promises is Obama not living up to?

 

[zooropop40]

You obviously don't recognize a joke when you see one. I love Texas, but we have some extremely outspoken people lately that are just dumb as dirt, and Barton is one of them. It has nothing to do with BELIEF. This has to do with facts, and he doesn't have a grasp on them...

If you still stay in Texas you may not even be part of the USA in a few months!

I mean seriously...secession?? ...really??

I dont care what anyone thinks of Keith Olbermann, but no one in their right mind could disagree with what he says in this video: He examines what exactly would happen if Texas actually seceded ...

Countdown with Keith OlbermannCountdown with Keith Olbermann

 

[BVS]

Perry is an A grade asshole. I know him personally.

He does not represent us all...

 

[anitram]

I love Mexicans. I love Canadians. I love everyone who isn't a criminal and doesn't want to harm this country. But for God's sake, come here legally. Get in line. Obey the law.

I wasn't aware that there were significant numbers of Canadians escaping the oppressive regime for greener American pastures?

 

[VintagePunk]

I wasn't aware that there were significant numbers of Canadians escaping the oppressive regime for greener American pastures?

I regularly drive to Niagara Falls and gaze longingly at the border.

 

[zooropop40]

haha...many of my canadian relatives say they would never want to live anywhere else

 

[AliEnvy]

What campaign promises is Obama not living up to?

Seriously? Or are you just being contrary for the sake of being argumentative?

Virtually all politicians will say anything to get elected and backtrack big time once they're in office. Obama's no different. It's actually a bit startling how he's followed Bush positions on a number of policies.

 

[zooropop40]

Seriously? Or are you just being contrary for the sake of being argumentative?

Virtually all politicians will say anything to get elected and backtrack big time once they're in office. Obama's no different. It's actually a bit startling how he's followed Bush positions on a number of policies.

hmm...he's really not following much of Bush's positions at all. Obviously its impossible to follow all campaign promises, but given the amount of problems Obama is facing right now, he is doing well with trying his best to live up to what he has promised.

 

[AliEnvy]

hmm...he's really not following much of Bush's positions at all.

Are you sure about that?

washingtonpost.com

Observers of all political stripes are stunned by how much of the Bush national security agenda is being adopted by this new Democratic government. Victor Davis Hanson (National Review) offers a partial list: "The Patriot Act, wiretaps, e-mail intercepts, military tribunals, Predator drone attacks, Iraq (i.e., slowing the withdrawal), Afghanistan (i.e., the surge) -- and now Guantanamo."

Jack Goldsmith (The New Republic) adds: rendition -- turning over terrorists seized abroad to foreign countries; state secrets -- claiming them in court to quash legal proceedings on rendition and other erstwhile barbarisms; and the denial of habeas corpus -- to detainees in Afghanistan's Bagram prison, indistinguishable logically and morally from Guantanamo.

 

[BVS]

Seriously? Or are you just being contrary for the sake of being argumentative?

Virtually all politicians will say anything to get elected and backtrack big time once they're in office. Obama's no different. It's actually a bit startling how he's followed Bush positions on a number of policies.

Well that's my point...

He made a promise of being bipartisan, and he's doing just that. He's being a realist.

 

[AliEnvy]

He made a promise of being bipartisan, and he's doing just that. He's being a realist.

So following that logic, you believe Bush was being a realist (in hindsight naturally...)?

 

[zooropop40]

Are you sure about that?

washingtonpost.com

He has stated that he is against the patriot act, just because he hasnt gone through actually changing it yet doesnt mean that he supports it. The amount of things more important than the patriot act right now for Obama are huge. He has also set a time-table for withdrawl in Iraq (something bush was against) and he repeatedly stated during the campaign that he was for sending more troops to afghanistan.

The main changes from Bush foreign policy are:

Ending Iraq, more troops to afghanistan instead, more diplomacy (in a more active way than bush did), ending torture, and trying to close guantanamo. This alone is a complete turnaround from the "attitude" of Bush. Obama has clearly taken on a more global view rather than the america-centric view Bush seemed to follow. Just because he has not directly addressed all of Bush's policies doesnt mean that he supports them.

 

[BVS]

So following that logic, you believe Bush was being a realist (in hindsight naturally...)?

Now you are being purpsosely obtuse...

Where has he taken Bush policies at full face value?

You ask a lot of questions, but you answer very few.

 

[A_Wanderer]

Yeah, AliEnvy is a republican!

 

[Salome]

if Obama has to change every Bush policy within half a year he won't have any time left to sleep
or to name his pets
etc

 

[zooropop40]

So following that logic, you believe Bush was being a realist (in hindsight naturally...)?

no. Obama is actually making an effort to try to include republicans (even if they dont want to reach out to him). Bush did pretty much the opposite, and even went to the lengths of demonizing the other side saying that we would be more at risk of a terrorist attack if a democrat was elected. That is fear mongering not being a "realist"

 

[zooropop40]

if Obama has to change every Bush policy within half a year he won't have any time left to sleep
or to name his pets
etc

exactly. the amount that he has already overturned shows a new direction even this early. but just because he hasnt overturned a bush policy yet somehow means that he supports it is an argument that holds no ground.

 

[AliEnvy]

Yeah, AliEnvy is a republican!

Holding consistent anti-intervention positions can get me labeled a conservative republican, liberal democrat, anti-Semite or conspiracy theorist depending on the issue and time of day...especially among partisan hypocrites apologists.

 

[BVS]

But what does ignoring nuances get you?

 

[INDY500]

Obama has clearly taken on a more global view rather than the america-centric view Bush seemed to follow.

Gosh, don't we kinda want the President of the United States to be "America-centric"? You know, putting OUR interests FIRST.

 

[zooropop40]

Gosh, don't we kinda want the President of the United States to be "America-centric"? You know, putting OUR interests FIRST.

of course our interest comes first- but Bush's view was that it is ONLY our interests that matter. In other words, we could survive on our own and that we shouldnt care about any other countries. To have a global view means understanding that there is more to this world than america. Before bush was president, he barely left america. Without visiting other countries and understanding other culture's, how can we gain perspective and understand our own culture and society?

 

[AliEnvy]

But what does ignoring nuances get you?

Nuances like? Apparently I'm obtuse so why don't you enlighten me.

I don't find the excuses that Obama supporters make for Bush-like national security policy to be nuanced at all.

 

[BonosSaint]

Personally, I think it's too early to judge his presidency one way or the other. He has a lot on his plate. But I think it's fair from day one to watch the direction. If he does end up keeping up the same policies many of us disdain (and I do, too), can we sleep better by calling it "nuanced"? I don't want a cover word like nuance giving any president a pass.

I'm pleased with much of his direction, less pleased with others. But I think if you are going to praise or excuse one president and criticize another for what might be essentially the same result, the analysis loses credibility. If he is backtracking or giving insufficient priority, hold his feet to the fire or give a better explanation than "nuance".
I think we should be all over our presidents, whether we supported them or not.

Bush is history. Obama has to clean up that history or he may have to cop to an ineffective presidency. He deserves a lot more time to judge him, but he really doesn't deserve any time to be free from criticism. He took on the job.

 

[AliEnvy]

I think we should be all over our presidents, whether we supported them or not.
...
he really doesn't deserve any time to be free from criticism. He took on the job.

 

[deep]

I know many of you just see Bush/Cheney as one constant

but the 'stay the course' Bush of 2004, 2005
did moderate quite a bit by 2008,

Around 2007, 2008 Bush seemed to listen less to Cheney
he was looking for a way out of Iraq and I believe he stated that GITMO should be closed when the trials were over

Obama ran as new kind of politician that would listen to other opinions and work with everybody.


I really do not want anymore "Stay the course'" Presidents
that are closed minded and married to a position stated at one point in time
based on the (limited) information available at that point in time.


I won't color it with words like 'nuanced", that seems to be a word crafted for people that still want a 'stay the course' president.

I'll take a flip-flopper any day. I won't let anyone manipulate me or a leader I support from the right to a different decision if it appears to be correct.
I do realize this should not happen very often, for credibility purposes.
And only when new information makes the 'so-called' reversal sensible.