Anti-Tax Tea Parties Held Across U.S.

The friendliest place on the web for anyone that follows U2.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
See posts with no answers
2861U2 said:
I went to one today, and it was great. I'd say 600-700 people here in Bloomington, IL. It's really gotten me pretty fired up and angry. And anyone who wants to say that these were partisan events likely did not go to one. There was just as much anger directed at Bush as there was Obama over the spending. It was great to see hundreds of people like me and millions more across the country who, along with our yet-to-be-conceived children are being enslaved and placed trillions of dollars in debt.
Click to expand...


that's encouraging. i suppose i can disagree rationally with a bi-partisan tea party that vents anger at Bush and the GOP for their spending over the last 8 years as well as the stimulus package. rational people can disagree. only an irrational person, however, started to care about this on January 20, 2009. so long as there's adherence to the principle, and it seems like you're saying that there was, then i really don't have a problem with it.

one thing i think that's actually good about Obama is that he's getting criticism from both the Right (these tea party things or whatever) as well as the Left (Paul Krugman), which leads me to believe that he's actually as much of an honest broker as we could ask for in this situation.

so long as the disagreements remain rooted in principle, then i think all of this is very healthy.




And that CNN lady was a joke. She should be fired. People who are calling these events nothing but anti-government, extreme-right radical demonstrations clearly must feel threatened by them. At the very least, they have no idea what the hell they're talking about.
Click to expand...


don't fall over ... but i agree with you here as well. she should have let him talk, even though that guy had no idea about what he was talking about.
 
2861U2 said:
I think a majority of it is spending. The people I saw and heard from were certainly more pissed at the spending than the taxes.

As for why there wasn't anything like this last year- I'm not sure. If there had been local events like this in the fall, protesting Bush's spending and the bailouts and all, I would have probably shown up. I think these suddenly sprouted up because people are seeing that it's both parties who were/are irresponsible and spending money we don't have.
Click to expand...



the reason why this didn't happen last year was because Bush was in office. you didn't have the organization possible then as you do now. these Tea Parties were orchestrated by Pajamas TV, Fox News, and several GOP Congressmen (Dick Armey specifically).

so they are, by definition, hypocritical.

it's good to hear that not all the participants were.

now, i could be mistaking you for another poster, but i assume you were every bit as offended by the protesters who were calling for Obama to be hung or those calling him Chairman Maobama as you were by those anti-war protesters who wanted Bush and Cheney locked up or whatever else.

yes?

because i'm just looking for consistency here.
 
Have you seen some of the crazy pictures from these events?

Picture155.png

Except it's exactly not the same.

Picture164a.jpg


Picture154.png

Actually, no he didn't. But thanks for trying.

Picture159.png

I would have loved to have gone to one of these things with a sign that just read, "LOUD AND ANGRY WORDS"

Picture163.png

Nothing shocks me anymore. NOTHING.

Picture168.png

But when Bush hangs out with the Saudis, it's good for the country.

Picture166a.jpg

Zero taxes! Fuck yeah!

3337166693_200e31ec96.jpg.jpeg

A fascist communist. Brilliant.
 
Pajamas TV? What is that?

Nice sign w/ the swastika. That really increases credibility.

I was hoping one of those people knows what lies in the shadow of the statue. That would be fun, to go up to them at those rallies and just keep asking them that...
 
^ see, while all that is shocking ignorance, it's just as unfair to take out a few signs from many protesters.

i attended many anti-war rallies over 2003-7, and i know that the mainstream was very middle of the road, middle American, and rational. it's too bad when a few fringe elements get all the media attention.

so i'm assuming that these tea parties were much the same.

right?

or are they just filled with people who don't know a thing about economics?
 
You know, on the news this morning they talked to the Secretary of Homeland Security about some report published yesterday about the threat of extreme-right terrorism from our own citizens and how likely it would be for an attempt to be made on Obama's life. I laughed it off saying that they are really demonizing the right, but after looking at these photos I wouldn't be surprised if one of these nuts decided to start a "real revolution" by assassinating Obama. :doh:
 
Irvine511 said:
^ see, while all that is shocking ignorance, it's just as unfair to take out a few signs from many protesters.

i attended many anti-war rallies over 2003-7, and i know that the mainstream was very middle of the road, middle American, and rational. it's too bad when a few fringe elements get all the media attention.

so i'm assuming that these tea parties were much the same.

right?

or are they just filled with people who don't know a thing about economics?
Click to expand...

Well I definitely know that there are sensible people protesting out there who know what they are talking about, but some of this ignorance can't be ignored. I can't tell you how many times I've heard someone call Obama a fascist after claiming that he wants to drive this country into socialism.

Just last night I gave my dad a tea bag as a joke and he went totally off on me about how he is "Taxed Enough Already." :rolleyes: Except your taxes just went down.
Then he said that Obama "made me pay taxes" this year when I earned less than $10K last year. I had to remind him rather forcefully that taxes were not taken out of my paycheck at that job and if that had been this year instead of last year I would have paid much less in taxes.

Then he shut up. :happy:
 
Tiger Edge said:
Well I definitely know that there are sensible people protesting out there who know what they are talking about, but some of this ignorance can't be ignored. I can't tell you how many times I've heard someone call Obama a fascist after claiming that he wants to drive this country into socialism.

Just last night I gave my dad a tea bag as a joke and he went totally off on me about how he is "Taxed Enough Already." :rolleyes: Except your taxes just went down.
Then he said that Obama "made me pay taxes" this year when I earned less than $10K last year. I had to remind him rather forcefully that taxes were not taken out of my paycheck at that job and if that had been this year instead of last year I would have paid much less in taxes.

Then he shut up. :happy:
Click to expand...



yeah, i don't get the tax thing. people's taxes are, like, historically pretty low. and all Obama wants is to go back to those horrible, oppressive, Sheriff of Nottingham-esque mid-1990s levels of taxation.

i don't see how it's quite right that the richest Americans now earn a greater percentage of the overall wealth than ever before, yet they're the only group who have seen their tax rates plummet.

spending, however, i think honest people can have disagreements over.

taxes, however, are a fact of life and a necessary evil.
 
Tiger Edge said:
Well I definitely know that there are sensible people protesting out there who know what they are talking about, but some of this ignorance can't be ignored. I can't tell you how many times I've heard someone call Obama a fascist after claiming that he wants to drive this country into socialism.
Click to expand...

I'm sure they are out there too... BUT WHERE?

I really haven't heard an intelligent well informed response as to what yesterday was really truly about and why it wasn't consistent with spending during the Bush years.

Even Beck tried really hard to make people think this wasn't about Obama yet forgot and went on a rant about Obama.

Those signs are great, and like Irvine said protests in general do bring out the quacks, but unfortunately the "cut taxes not defense" is now a common way of thinking by many, they just don't get it. I keep hearing that we don't have the money to pay for this and that, yet there is always this mindset that military spending just come out of thin air, that's not real money, that doesn't count.

If someone could provide me with, or at least a link to, a well informed reason for yesterday I would appreciate it.
 
The more interesting sign is "Your tax dollars pay for illegal immigration" in the back of the last one.

No, your tax dollars pay for border patrol. Everything to these type of people is so black and white. My tax dollars fund this, my tax dollars fund that. Well they also fund the exact opposite. My tax dollars fund putting books into my library, and lunches for kids who can't afford to pay for their own food at school. They also helped bomb innocent people in Iraq, and helped a soldier fend off an array of bullets with a bulletproof vest. Why don't they understand this? You sometimes get what you want, you sometimes don't. You can't allocate where your money goes. :|
 
still, can someone answer me this?

why did it take Obama pushing through a package containing a massive public works package and significant homeowner aid to get conservatives out marching in the streets?

are those only worthwhile projects in Iraq?

it seems to me that there might be an undercurrent of intra-class warfare amongst working class whites?
 
MrsSpringsteen said:
Yes-as long as it was all going to Halliburton all was hunky dory
Click to expand...



but, like, i'm still amazed. we're mad at Slob Joe who's getting money so he doesn't get foreclosed on, but we're fine with the banks (who wrote the irresponsible mortgage to begin with) who are actually benefiting a whole lot more from these loans than Slob Joe?

it's when some low-income person actually benefits from something -- or that people get their roads fixed, or get more money for college, or better health care -- that the conservatives wig out and talk about socialism. never mind the billions handed out to Boeing, IBM, GM, etc.

do Americans secretly hate one another?
 
Whether they like it or not taxes will have to be raised to balance the budget. The spending has been through the roof for a long time. Obama is just continuing what Bush already was for.

All the Neo-Keynesians want to do now is get inflation up because inflation to them is a "recovery". Staff at the Fed also mentioned that they don't want to raise interest rates too soon to create probably another recession so they are obviously going to make the public eat more inflation than they are used to in the coming years. It's looking more and more like the '70s. I think I need some platform shoes and bell-bottoms. :wink:

I think this guy is more the influence on politicians for increased spending than anyone else I know:

krugman_main.png


A lot of the public also agree with him. Krugman feels we need MORE spending than Obama is pushing for:

Time for bottles in coal mines - Paul Krugman Blog - NYTimes.com

April 14, 2009, 10:15 am
Time for bottles in coal mines
President Obama hails the fact that stimulus projects are coming in “ahead of schedule and under budget.” Yay — but boo.

Ahead of schedule is good. Under budget — well, ordinarily that’s a good thing. But the point of the stimulus is to increase spending! So if we don’t spend as much as expected, that’s less stimulus.

Paging Keynes, who pointed out the problem with projects that are of some use besides their role as stimulus. Such projects

"because they are not wholly wasteful, tend to be judged on strict “business” principles."

He then went on to propose an alternative:

"If the Treasury were to fill old bottles with banknotes, bury them at suitable depths in disused coalmines which are then filled up to the surface with town rubbish, and leave it to private enterprise on well-tried principles of laissez-faire to dig the notes up again (the right to do so being obtained, of course, by tendering for leases of the note-bearing territory), there need be no more unemployment and, with the help of the repercussions, the real income of the community, and its capital wealth also, would probably become a good deal greater than it actually is. It would, indeed, be more sensible to build houses and the like; but if there are political and practical difficulties in the way of this, the above would be better than nothing."

Seriously: if the projects really are coming in cheaper than expected, that doesn’t mean we should bank the savings; it means that we need more projects.
Click to expand...

Paul O'Neill was right in disagreeing with Cheney on debt and tax cuts. Taxes at lower rates don't pay for themselves and social security changes were more important. If it's true that Cheney told him that "Reagan proved that debt doesn't matter" then it shows he's misinformed. Reagan's intentions and desires and Reagan's own negative feeling about not getting the budget balanced would prove Cheney wrong right there. Plus Reagan also had a Democratic majority congress to deal with. :doh:

Getting social security right (like in Chile's successful system) would have been much better than "No child left behind" failures and massive health care entitlements. Now with Obama who is refunding social security in the form of tax credits a ticking time bomb is continuing with the aging population and some drastic change will have to happen or retirement benefits will have to be watered down.

As much as we like to blame politicians it comes down to the public. Most people applaud social spending but when it comes to paying the taxes for it they get into the "tea party" attitude. This contradiction can't continue in the public or else we will continue to have politicians who will respond with the same contradictions in policy and then using borrowed money to bridge the difference. Obama is simply doing what much of the "experts" and the public want which is to increase the nanny state. When taxes increase some of the same people will bitch about it. :hmm: Reminds me of what Reagan said "there is no free lunch".

The economy isn't about a zero sum game of gambling and flipping assets to others (who in turn increasingly use more debt). The economy is about production and income. When people produce and trade their skills for other people's skills and invest some of that money for future capital expenditures we get real growth and a higher standard of living. The "higher standard of living" is having so much produced that our purchasing power is increased. PPP - Purchase power parity is more useful than GDP which may include lots of inflation.
 
Irvine511 said:
do Americans secretly hate one another?
Click to expand...

No-some Americans just hate the lazy low income slobs who can't just pull themselves up by their bootstraps like THEY did. Recession brings out the best in people. I wonder what it was like in the Great Depression.

I think it's just easier to get angry about taxes than it is to have to face the harsh realities regarding what's fundamentally wrong with us. On the other hand I don't think it's at all unreasonable to worry about what the govt is doing with your money-as long as that's done in a reasonably intelligent way.
 
I hope these idiots enjoy the next 8+ years. Because, quite frankly, without a massive overhaul in the Republican Party, they have no way of returning to power anytime soon. The majority of Americans are moderate on most issues, and unless the GOP can figure out a way to appeal to the average middle and lower-income Americans, they're finished. Most people ares simply tired of the paranoia of fundamentalist wackjobs and ultra-wealthy neocons screaming "SOCIALISM!!!1212121!", every time the government tries to do something that will benefit the majority of American people. It's sad that it took all the utter disasters and hardships of the past 8 years for people to finally be shocked out of their stupor about what the far-right is trying to do to this country, but I'm glad it's happened.
 
U2isthebest said:
I hope these idiots enjoy the next 8+ years. Because, quite frankly, without a massive overhaul in the Republican Party.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't be so sure. ( It seems many Dems are as confident of their Permanent Majority as the GOP was a few years back)

all it takes is for people to be malcontent.


without Bush at 29%, the Dems would not have made the gains in 2006 and 2008.


GHW Bush, was not all that bad in 1992, and he got tossed aside.
 
deep said:
I wouldn't be so sure. ( It seems many Dems are as confident of their Permanent Majority as the GOP was a few years back)

all it takes is for people to be malcontent.


without Bush at 29%, the Dems would not have made the gains in 2006 and 2008.


GHW Bush, was not all that bad in 1992, and he got tossed aside.
Click to expand...

Oh, I agree with you there. I'm well aware of how fickle the American people can be especially if things don't go their way. Elections from year to year can turn around in a snap, and I didn't really take that into account in what I said. But, I do think the swiftness with which the Republican majority (first in Congress, than in the White House) fell is pretty telling, not simply that the American people were discontent over what's happened so far this decade (although that's a major factor, of course), but that the GOP's ideas and platform are still steeped in 20th century ideology and in some cases Cold War Era tactics. This election changed our country in more ways than the obvious. More people really started paying attention to the political system and the messages our leaders on both sides of the aisle are sending us. I think the majority of people in 2012, for example are going to be a lot more aware of the big picture in terms of moving the country forward into the 21st century as opposed to remaining mired in the status quo way of doing things. To compare it, say, to the way things were going in 92, while definitely worthwhile for pointing out the fickleness of the American electorate isn't really an indicator for where the minds of many voters are now.
 
purpleoscar said:
As much as we like to blame politicians it comes down to the public. Most people applaud social spending but when it comes to paying the taxes for it they get into the "tea party" attitude.
Click to expand...

But it's not just social spending. You love military spending, but don't want to pay the taxes for it...

This is the Elephant size contradiction that keeps hitting conservatives in the ass which you just ignore. They want big-ass walls that cost 4 MILLION dollas a mile to keep the brownies out. They want roads just like everyone else. They also want their big ass American SUVs, insurance to cover them, and banks to be able to loan them money and I guarantee you that if Obama let them fail they'd be bitching then.

Like I said before, very few actually want to ride out the market healing itself, but it's easy to be a Tuesday morning armchair quarterback.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

N
  • Locked
NBA 2022-23 Thread
46 47 48
Replies
1K
Views
45K
U2inUtah
U2inUtah
MrsSpringsteen
Fox News, Fake News!
Replies
4
Views
699
dazzledbylight
dazzledbylight
LemonMelon
Desert Island XI - QUARANTINE ISLAND - Group 2 Listening Thread
4 5 6
Replies
175
Views
6K
namkcuR
N
A
The little Stranger chapter 11
Replies
0
Views
744
annj
A
A
The Little stranger chapter 16
Replies
0
Views
988
annj
A

Latest posts

Back
Top Bottom