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Old 04-16-2009, 11:39 AM   #76
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When does he climb into the machine and become the suave Stefan?
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Old 04-16-2009, 11:44 AM   #77
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oh snap, I remember that, or when he used to guest star on Fresh Prince
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Old 04-16-2009, 12:16 PM   #78
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Equating Obama with Urkel... that's pretty clever... in 1990.


Urkel is likely the only black person in that person's cultural lexicon.
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Old 04-16-2009, 12:20 PM   #79
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Tempest In A Tea Party: The "Daily Show" Takes On Teabaggers (VIDEO)

http://www.gallup.com/poll/117523/Am...spx?CSTS=alert
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Old 04-16-2009, 12:38 PM   #80
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still, can someone answer me this?

why did it take Obama pushing through a package containing a massive public works package and significant homeowner aid to get conservatives out marching in the streets?

are those only worthwhile projects in Iraq?

it seems to me that there might be an undercurrent of intra-class warfare amongst working class whites?
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Old 04-16-2009, 12:42 PM   #81
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Yes-as long as it was all going to Halliburton all was hunky dory
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Old 04-16-2009, 12:55 PM   #82
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Yes-as long as it was all going to Halliburton all was hunky dory


but, like, i'm still amazed. we're mad at Slob Joe who's getting money so he doesn't get foreclosed on, but we're fine with the banks (who wrote the irresponsible mortgage to begin with) who are actually benefiting a whole lot more from these loans than Slob Joe?

it's when some low-income person actually benefits from something -- or that people get their roads fixed, or get more money for college, or better health care -- that the conservatives wig out and talk about socialism. never mind the billions handed out to Boeing, IBM, GM, etc.

do Americans secretly hate one another?
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Old 04-16-2009, 01:07 PM   #83
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Whether they like it or not taxes will have to be raised to balance the budget. The spending has been through the roof for a long time. Obama is just continuing what Bush already was for.

All the Neo-Keynesians want to do now is get inflation up because inflation to them is a "recovery". Staff at the Fed also mentioned that they don't want to raise interest rates too soon to create probably another recession so they are obviously going to make the public eat more inflation than they are used to in the coming years. It's looking more and more like the '70s. I think I need some platform shoes and bell-bottoms.

I think this guy is more the influence on politicians for increased spending than anyone else I know:



A lot of the public also agree with him. Krugman feels we need MORE spending than Obama is pushing for:

Time for bottles in coal mines - Paul Krugman Blog - NYTimes.com

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April 14, 2009, 10:15 am
Time for bottles in coal mines
President Obama hails the fact that stimulus projects are coming in “ahead of schedule and under budget.” Yay — but boo.

Ahead of schedule is good. Under budget — well, ordinarily that’s a good thing. But the point of the stimulus is to increase spending! So if we don’t spend as much as expected, that’s less stimulus.

Paging Keynes, who pointed out the problem with projects that are of some use besides their role as stimulus. Such projects

"because they are not wholly wasteful, tend to be judged on strict “business” principles."

He then went on to propose an alternative:

"If the Treasury were to fill old bottles with banknotes, bury them at suitable depths in disused coalmines which are then filled up to the surface with town rubbish, and leave it to private enterprise on well-tried principles of laissez-faire to dig the notes up again (the right to do so being obtained, of course, by tendering for leases of the note-bearing territory), there need be no more unemployment and, with the help of the repercussions, the real income of the community, and its capital wealth also, would probably become a good deal greater than it actually is. It would, indeed, be more sensible to build houses and the like; but if there are political and practical difficulties in the way of this, the above would be better than nothing."

Seriously: if the projects really are coming in cheaper than expected, that doesn’t mean we should bank the savings; it means that we need more projects.
Paul O'Neill was right in disagreeing with Cheney on debt and tax cuts. Taxes at lower rates don't pay for themselves and social security changes were more important. If it's true that Cheney told him that "Reagan proved that debt doesn't matter" then it shows he's misinformed. Reagan's intentions and desires and Reagan's own negative feeling about not getting the budget balanced would prove Cheney wrong right there. Plus Reagan also had a Democratic majority congress to deal with.

Getting social security right (like in Chile's successful system) would have been much better than "No child left behind" failures and massive health care entitlements. Now with Obama who is refunding social security in the form of tax credits a ticking time bomb is continuing with the aging population and some drastic change will have to happen or retirement benefits will have to be watered down.

As much as we like to blame politicians it comes down to the public. Most people applaud social spending but when it comes to paying the taxes for it they get into the "tea party" attitude. This contradiction can't continue in the public or else we will continue to have politicians who will respond with the same contradictions in policy and then using borrowed money to bridge the difference. Obama is simply doing what much of the "experts" and the public want which is to increase the nanny state. When taxes increase some of the same people will bitch about it. Reminds me of what Reagan said "there is no free lunch".

The economy isn't about a zero sum game of gambling and flipping assets to others (who in turn increasingly use more debt). The economy is about production and income. When people produce and trade their skills for other people's skills and invest some of that money for future capital expenditures we get real growth and a higher standard of living. The "higher standard of living" is having so much produced that our purchasing power is increased. PPP - Purchase power parity is more useful than GDP which may include lots of inflation.
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Old 04-16-2009, 01:33 PM   #84
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do Americans secretly hate one another?
No-some Americans just hate the lazy low income slobs who can't just pull themselves up by their bootstraps like THEY did. Recession brings out the best in people. I wonder what it was like in the Great Depression.

I think it's just easier to get angry about taxes than it is to have to face the harsh realities regarding what's fundamentally wrong with us. On the other hand I don't think it's at all unreasonable to worry about what the govt is doing with your money-as long as that's done in a reasonably intelligent way.
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Old 04-16-2009, 02:15 PM   #85
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I hope these idiots enjoy the next 8+ years. Because, quite frankly, without a massive overhaul in the Republican Party, they have no way of returning to power anytime soon. The majority of Americans are moderate on most issues, and unless the GOP can figure out a way to appeal to the average middle and lower-income Americans, they're finished. Most people ares simply tired of the paranoia of fundamentalist wackjobs and ultra-wealthy neocons screaming "SOCIALISM!!!1212121!", every time the government tries to do something that will benefit the majority of American people. It's sad that it took all the utter disasters and hardships of the past 8 years for people to finally be shocked out of their stupor about what the far-right is trying to do to this country, but I'm glad it's happened.
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Old 04-16-2009, 02:22 PM   #86
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Urkel is likely the only black person in that person's cultural lexicon.
The only way they could've made it cooler would be if they had gone with Theo's friend, Cockroach, from The Cosby Show. You remember 'Roach, don't you, kids?
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Old 04-16-2009, 02:29 PM   #87
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I hope these idiots enjoy the next 8+ years. Because, quite frankly, without a massive overhaul in the Republican Party.
I wouldn't be so sure. ( It seems many Dems are as confident of their Permanent Majority as the GOP was a few years back)

all it takes is for people to be malcontent.


without Bush at 29%, the Dems would not have made the gains in 2006 and 2008.


GHW Bush, was not all that bad in 1992, and he got tossed aside.
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Old 04-16-2009, 02:46 PM   #88
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wink

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can someone explain?
teabagging?

<>
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Old 04-16-2009, 02:48 PM   #89
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I wouldn't be so sure. ( It seems many Dems are as confident of their Permanent Majority as the GOP was a few years back)

all it takes is for people to be malcontent.


without Bush at 29%, the Dems would not have made the gains in 2006 and 2008.


GHW Bush, was not all that bad in 1992, and he got tossed aside.
Oh, I agree with you there. I'm well aware of how fickle the American people can be especially if things don't go their way. Elections from year to year can turn around in a snap, and I didn't really take that into account in what I said. But, I do think the swiftness with which the Republican majority (first in Congress, than in the White House) fell is pretty telling, not simply that the American people were discontent over what's happened so far this decade (although that's a major factor, of course), but that the GOP's ideas and platform are still steeped in 20th century ideology and in some cases Cold War Era tactics. This election changed our country in more ways than the obvious. More people really started paying attention to the political system and the messages our leaders on both sides of the aisle are sending us. I think the majority of people in 2012, for example are going to be a lot more aware of the big picture in terms of moving the country forward into the 21st century as opposed to remaining mired in the status quo way of doing things. To compare it, say, to the way things were going in 92, while definitely worthwhile for pointing out the fickleness of the American electorate isn't really an indicator for where the minds of many voters are now.
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Old 04-16-2009, 02:51 PM   #90
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As much as we like to blame politicians it comes down to the public. Most people applaud social spending but when it comes to paying the taxes for it they get into the "tea party" attitude.
But it's not just social spending. You love military spending, but don't want to pay the taxes for it...

This is the Elephant size contradiction that keeps hitting conservatives in the ass which you just ignore. They want big-ass walls that cost 4 MILLION dollas a mile to keep the brownies out. They want roads just like everyone else. They also want their big ass American SUVs, insurance to cover them, and banks to be able to loan them money and I guarantee you that if Obama let them fail they'd be bitching then.

Like I said before, very few actually want to ride out the market healing itself, but it's easy to be a Tuesday morning armchair quarterback.
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