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Old 10-12-2011, 02:02 PM   #631
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And when Bill Maher and Rachel Maddow share a good laugh over the idea of throwing rocks through Fox News' and Rupert Murdoch's windows, isn't violence the next step?


note you said "share a laugh."

did you listen to Beck's tone? quite different.
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Old 10-12-2011, 02:04 PM   #632
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I take it you haven't seen the signs or heard the rants of people literally saying to hunt down the rich, kill them and eat them.

And when Bill Maher and Rachel Maddow share a good laugh over the idea of throwing rocks through Fox News' and Rupert Murdoch's windows, isn't violence the next step?
Well first of all that has nothing to do with what Beck stated, he wasn't commenting on their signs.

Secondly "eat the rich" is an old saying, being using for 100s of years and has actually resulted in little violence.

And no I haven't seen any "kill them" signs yet, but I'll be honest I haven't paid too much attention to this whole ordeal.
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Old 10-12-2011, 08:13 PM   #633
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And when Bill Maher and Rachel Maddow share a good laugh over the idea of throwing rocks through Fox News' and Rupert Murdoch's windows, isn't violence the next step?
This is just absurd. It just makes me think that you haven't the faintest clue about the nature of political violence. Political violence is not some game to be played out by talking heads on CNN, MSNBC or Fox News. If there is ever a second American revolution, I assure you that Bill Maher and Rachel Maddow will have absolutely nothing to do with it, either as instigators or anything else.

As a matter of interest, though - and purely because I am genuinely curious as to the thought processes of the comparatively few remaining true believing neo-con supporters in America - are there any hypothetical circumstances whatever in which you think that the violent overthrow of a plutocratic oligarchy is morally justifiable?

Are there any circumstances whatever in which you would cease shilling for the plutocracy and join the majority? Say if they cut taxes for the wealthy to zero and made an 80 work week compulsory for the non-wealthy 99%, for example? Say if they completely abolised all social welfare and unemployment assistance and made union membership illegal? What then?
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Old 10-12-2011, 09:29 PM   #634
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This is just absurd. It just makes me think that you haven't the faintest clue about the nature of political violence. Political violence is not some game to be played out by talking heads on CNN, MSNBC or Fox News. If there is ever a second American revolution, I assure you that Bill Maher and Rachel Maddow will have absolutely nothing to do with it, either as instigators or anything else.

As a matter of interest, though - and purely because I am genuinely curious as to the thought processes of the comparatively few remaining true believing neo-con supporters in America - are there any hypothetical circumstances whatever in which you think that the violent overthrow of a plutocratic oligarchy is morally justifiable?

Are there any circumstances whatever in which you would cease shilling for the plutocracy and join the majority? Say if they cut taxes for the wealthy to zero and made an 80 work week compulsory for the non-wealthy 99%, for example? Say if they completely abolised all social welfare and unemployment assistance and made union membership illegal? What then?
Wow. You're making a tremendous leap there, and I really don't know where it's coming from. Is it because I have issues with the Occupy folks? Is it because I'm calling out prominent liberals for suggesting (or at the very least not denouncing) violence, especially when conservatives/the Tea Party are excoriated for supposedly doing the same and especially in the wake of Gabby Giffords? Help me out here.

And please- your last paragraph is pathetic. What makes you think I believe any of that?
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Old 10-12-2011, 10:01 PM   #635
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i generally agree with you, but can you see the difference between one comedian and one MSNBC host chatting vs. the half-term governor of Alaska and 2008 GOP VP Nominee's "don't retreat, reload" rhetoric?

i think elected officials are much different from "prominent liberals."
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Old 10-12-2011, 10:02 PM   #636
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- are there any hypothetical circumstances whatever in which you think that the violent overthrow of a plutocratic oligarchy is morally justifiable?
Not being picky but trying to safe you some typing: a plutocratic oligarchy is often referred to as a plutarchy. (True, look it up)

But why concern ourselves with hypothetical situations when the very real, very empirical hypothesis that Western civilization may soon crumble under the weight of our own debt, apathy and moral decay - is staring us directly in the face?
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Old 10-12-2011, 10:04 PM   #637
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But why concern ourselves with hypothetical situations when the very real, very empirical hypothesis that Western civilization will soon crumble under the weight of its own debt, apathy and moral decay - is staring us directly in the face?

nah. it's really just a revenue problem. society is a contract.

the globe has actually never been more moral than it is today.

Steven Pinker Talks End of Violence With Sam Harris - The Daily Beast
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Old 10-12-2011, 10:37 PM   #638
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But why concern ourselves with hypothetical situations when the very real, very empirical hypothesis that Western civilization may soon crumble under the weight of our own debt, apathy and moral decay - is staring us directly in the face?
Ready to take your hat and go home?

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Old 10-13-2011, 03:28 PM   #639
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And please- your last paragraph is pathetic. What makes you think I believe any of that?
Fine. Show me your posts critiquing corporate welfare, bank bailouts, tax evasion by the wealthy, and fraudulent wars. My record of drawing attention to these matters stands for itself. Where's yours?
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Old 10-13-2011, 03:31 PM   #640
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Not being picky but trying to safe you some typing: a plutocratic oligarchy is often referred to as a plutarchy. (True, look it up)

But why concern ourselves with hypothetical situations when the very real, very empirical hypothesis that Western civilization may soon crumble under the weight of our own debt, apathy and moral decay - is staring us directly in the face?
It's not hypothetical. The plutarchy (thanks for the heads up. I like this word, and will use it in every post from now on) created that situation. They're the ones to blame.

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So the “99% versus the 1%” theme is beginning to look like an acute class analysis after all, and it’s the guys in the 1% who made it so. Over the years, they have systematically hollowed out the space around them: destroying the industrial working class with the outsourcings and plant closures of the ’80s, turning on white collar managers in the downsizing wave of the ’90s, clearing large swathes of the middle class with the credit schemes of the ’00’s—the trick mortgages and till-death-do-we-part student loans.

In the ’60s we dreamed of uniting people of all races and collar colors into “one big working class.” But it took the billionaires to make it happen.

The Guys in the 1% Brought This On | Barbara Ehrenreich | The Progressive
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Old 10-13-2011, 04:21 PM   #641
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Fine. Show me your posts critiquing corporate welfare, bank bailouts, tax evasion by the wealthy, and fraudulent wars. My record of drawing attention to these matters stands for itself. Where's yours?
Because I don't make it a priority to post everyday about those things means I support them? Trust me, I oppose all four of the things you just mentioned. You're acting like I'm not angry. I am. My anger, however, is much more directed at reckless government that it is at Wall Street. That's where the Tea Party and OWS differ.

Again, I'd love to see your train of thought that led you from my criticism both of OWS and of the incredibly wealthy people on the left who support it to meaning that I'm a neo-con who wants a country such as the one you described in your earlier post.
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Old 10-13-2011, 04:27 PM   #642
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Why are you more angry with the government than with Wall Street?
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Old 10-13-2011, 04:30 PM   #643
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You're acting like I'm not angry. I am. My anger, however, is much more directed at reckless government that it is at Wall Street.
Who's the boss?
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Old 10-13-2011, 04:30 PM   #644
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Why are you more angry with the government than with Wall Street?
Are you suggesting Wall Street isn't every middle class American's best friend?
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Old 10-13-2011, 04:36 PM   #645
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I sincerely want to know. I figure it's a much more beneficial discussion talking about that than about whose protestors are more crazy.
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