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Old 04-15-2009, 09:34 PM   #46
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I am not sure that is a fair accusation. There were plenty of people against Bush 1's spending and running up of the deficit. These people today remind me (in some ways ) of the Perot supporters.



Not ALL would fail, many would. Many have. Some have been saved, others thrown under.

Many countries have had economic collapses in the last 20- 30 years.

All through the 80s and 90s it seemed all I heard about was the the money supply. M1 and M2. I can't remember when I have heard anyone mention anything about our rapidly growing money supply.

So if we had the giant collapse?? Would it be better if we all started from ground zero again.

Two or three years from now,
if we see significant inflation and problems paying the National debt.
These people will be able to say the warned us.
US will not default because it's the only country with currency of reserve status and the means and werewithal to back it up, if necessary with hard power. US could in theory just close of its borders to imports and start a trade war and the devil take the hindmost. No other country can do this.

From a US point of view, iron fist in velvet glove will probably be enough. Notice how diplomatic US and Chinese senior politicos are being to each other recently.

I am thinking about going long dollar, short Swiss franc.
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Old 04-15-2009, 09:34 PM   #47
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I am not sure that is a fair accusation. There were plenty of people against Bush 1's spending and running up of the deficit. These people today remind me (in some ways ) of the Perot supporters.
But were they having "tea parties"?


Quote:
Originally Posted by deep View Post
Not ALL would fail, many would. Many have. Some have been saved, others thrown under.

Many countries have had economic collapses in the last 20- 30 years.

All through the 80s and 90s it seemed all I heard about was the the money supply. M1 and M2. I can't remember when I have heard anyone mention anything about our rapidly growing money supply.

So if we had the giant collapse?? Would it be better if we all started from ground zero again.

Two or three years from now,
if we see significant inflation and problems paying the National debt.
These people will be able to say the warned us.
Which would be worse the time starting over from ground zero or the time it takes to pay off this debt? We can't really know.

But I think the point I'm trying to get at is that there will be many that say "just let the market heal itself", but almost none would be willing to actually see how that happens.
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Old 04-15-2009, 09:36 PM   #48
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Nice touch with the revolutionary era costumes and appeals to liberty and all that, but surely the original revolt was 'no taxation without representation'. Note that second part, it is important.
just came in to say much the same thing. the original tea party was a protest against taxes levelled against them by those who weren't elected....not so much the case this time around.
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Old 04-15-2009, 09:39 PM   #49
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I drove bye a gathering after work. Just down the street from my apt.
While I was sitting at the light I wrote on a notepad, "where were you before Bush's trillion $ war?"
When I came back from the grocery store, I had written "where were you last year?. They booed me that time. I applauded.

also, I got paid today, there was $18.00 difference in federal income tax withheld and $1 more in state taken out. wtf, why a dollar?
Please do not speak truths in here, the truth will only hurt us...

Today is a time to reflect upon the evil that is Obama and veil it in patriotism...
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Old 04-15-2009, 09:42 PM   #50
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I drove bye a gathering after work. Just down the street from my apt.
While I was sitting at the light I wrote on a notepad, "where were you before Bush's trillion $ war?"
When I came back from the grocery store, I had written "where were you last year?. They booed me that time. I applauded.


Good one!
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Old 04-15-2009, 09:45 PM   #51
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I had written "where were you last year?. They booed me that time.
They had jobs last year.
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Old 04-15-2009, 09:54 PM   #52
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But I think the point I'm trying to get at is that there will be many that say "just let the market heal itself", but almost none would be willing to actually see how that happens.
I think this a fair point. Ron Paul and the 'Austrian school' economists that influence his ideas advocate a hard line market approach, but they have the luxury that their prescription will probably never be tried - as with the Marxists, I'd argue.
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Old 04-15-2009, 10:07 PM   #53
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But were they having "tea parties"?




Which would be worse the time starting over from ground zero or the time it takes to pay off this debt? We can't really know.

But I think the point I'm trying to get at is that there will be many that say "just let the market heal itself", but almost none would be willing to actually see how that happens.
I think that's something that not enough people seem to consider - what's the human cost of letting everything collapse and rebuilding? I suspect it would be pretty horrifying, and that very few would actually be prepared to deal with the fall out.

The Obama administration are truly between a rock and a hard place with no good options, but I trust that they're picking the best of the worst, and doing the best that they can.
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Old 04-15-2009, 10:12 PM   #54
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I think that's something that not enough people seem to consider - what's the human cost of letting everything collapse and rebuilding?
Most of the residents of the Western (first) world have pretty much no idea about what life is like for the rest of this world's inhabitants or what the ramifications of a completely failed economic state are. There are plenty of lessons in history, but when you have not experienced such a way of life yourself, it is hard to grasp.

Economic futility is the breeding ground for many evils.
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Old 04-16-2009, 07:00 AM   #55
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Under the new plan, my mother and my brother actually have less taxes taken out of their paychecks, increasing the amount they take home. I don't get paid until tomorrow, but I think I'll have less taken out of mine too.

I find it hard to feel sorry for people making $255,000 a year.
Like most families in America, we also, are now paying less taxes. Lower taxes are helping the working/middle class.
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Old 04-16-2009, 08:14 AM   #56
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Maybe the food taxes, etc are just where I am I just happened to notice it recently well shopping, etc. It use to be a 6% tax on our shopping now it's 8%-10%

With the gas maybe I was referring to it going up, it's down now, but it will up again. Maybe I got a little confused lol

I go to a community college right now I'm rely on grants and federal aid to be able to go to school without it I wouldn't be going. This all just happened yesterday, so I'm still learning more on it.

You always need to differenciate between federal and state taxing/spending, especially when you are going to protest one entity. Sales taxes in the US are almost always state issues. The funding of your university maybe as well. So it wouldn't make sense to take it to the streets and protest Bush's or Obama's policies when your arguments are states' issues. I agree it's sometimes complicated, especially when it is mixed issues, but a protest is more effective if aimed at the right person/party.
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Old 04-16-2009, 08:17 AM   #57
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Maybe I'm crazy, but I'm OK paying the same, or even more taxes, so long as they go towards thing that actually help this country and our people (read: not for funding a gazillion dollar "war"). FWIW we live on one salary, pay more a month for student loan payments than a lot of people are paying on mortgages, and drive a lemon that needs more $$$ in repairs than what it's worth, but I like things like public education, health care, roads, parks, libraries, utilities....
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Old 04-16-2009, 09:35 AM   #58
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bailing out after massive debt and reckless spending=tea party

getting into massive debt for a war started under false pretenses and tax cuts for the rich=kegger
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Old 04-16-2009, 09:48 AM   #59
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Old 04-16-2009, 09:51 AM   #60
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Does anyone have a picture of Glenn Beck in Revolutionary garb? I bet he looked hot. Or Bill O'Reilly? Didn't this idea start on Fox or am I wrong?
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