Anti-Tax Tea Parties Held Across U.S. - Page 36 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind
Click Here to Login
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 07-21-2010, 12:07 PM   #526
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
maycocksean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: The Most Important State in the Union
Posts: 4,882
Local Time: 04:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by A stor View Post
I'm an Independent and would like to know why not allowing persons to enter the United States illegally, is considered to be racist? Every country has laws against this. Look at what happened to the folks who were hiking, accidently crossing the Iranian border.. They're in prison. Charged with espionage.

European, Russian and Egyptian friends of mine, legally live and work in America, paying all state and federal taxes BTW. They were not given "card blanche" nor did they run over the border. The United States government knows they are here.
I don't think a person objecting to illegal immigration is automatically a racist. And like you I'm puzzled sometimes by arguments that suggest that. I personally support strong anti-illegal immigration measures. However, I DO object to the tone and attitude of many of those who support these measures. There is often a thinly veiled racism to these objections--you get the sense that this really about a fear of the "Brown Hordes" streaming across the border rather than just a sensible desire for secure borders. This not new--our nation has always been hostile to certain groups entering the country legally or otherwise, going all the way back to the Irish back in the mid-19th century.

Personally, I feel that the best way to stem illegal immigration is to crack down HARD on those who employ them. These are the real "bad guys" if you ask me. These employers knowingly break the law, are able to pay the workers crap wages and even mistreat or abuse them because they know as illegal immigrants they can't complain. If you have strong measures against those that knowingly employ illegal immigrants (and put the onus on the employer to verify the status of those they employ) then you'll see fewer illegals because they won't be able to find the work they're coming here for. But you rarely hear that emphasis from the most vocal illegal-immigrant opponents. They'd rather paint the illegals as the bad guys and often that depiction stinks of racism.
__________________

__________________
maycocksean is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2010, 12:51 PM   #527
Refugee
 
A stor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: U.S.A. East Coast
Posts: 2,464
Local Time: 09:05 PM
Well said, I agree 100%.

Same for me. It has always been about safety and human rights. No deserves to be forced to live like that. Coyotes, Illegal employment sounds like modern day slavery to me. I have a question though. Will legal immigration be easier to obtain? I certainly, hope so. I love, multi-cultural America!
__________________

__________________
A stor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2010, 12:53 PM   #528
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 40,684
Local Time: 03:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by A stor View Post
I'm an Independent and would like to know why not allowing persons to enter the United States illegally, is considered to be racist?
It's not so much the being opposed to them being here illegally, it's the means and the arguments to which they use.

Like "they're all drug smugglers".

"They'll turn our neighborhoods into mini-Mexico."

"I don't want my child going to kindergarten where it's 75% hispanic." Yes, this argument was actually used in here.

Terms like "anchor babies".

Really look hard at the arguments folks use, and you can tell which ones are the racists and which one's aren't.
__________________
BVS is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2010, 04:22 PM   #529
Refugee
 
A stor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: U.S.A. East Coast
Posts: 2,464
Local Time: 09:05 PM
I see what you mean and I agree anyone who says that is racist. Sadly, I'm not Native America. Wish I was. Beautiful culture and people. All of my ancestors came from Ireland during the latter part of the nineteenth century.

Fortunately for me. I live in a nice, working class, multi-cultural neighborhood. My neighbors are from all over the globe. The only time I have seen a rare disagreement was because of "your kid did this to mine." It was never about ethnic group or religion.

To be honest. I don't think it is fair to pay anyone less wages for the same job, because of status. I do believe it should be easier to get a work visa for the U.S. This hopefully would get rid of some of the criminal activity, Coyotes and etc. But, pay these employees the same as a citizen. Tax out the proper taxes and offer health care.

If I moved to Ireland for work and retained U.S. citizenship. I would still be entitled to health care and the same wages as an Irish citizen.
__________________
A stor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2010, 04:50 PM   #530
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
maycocksean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: The Most Important State in the Union
Posts: 4,882
Local Time: 04:05 PM
I agree that is unfair to pay immigrants less than citizens and a company could not do that to a legal immigrant. But businesses or individuals who hire illegal immigrants aren't concerned with being fair in the first place. Since they are hiring them outside of the law to begin with they can also ignore minimum wage laws, fair and safe treatment etc. Since illegal immigrants aren't supposed to be working in the U.S. in the first place, the businesses can treat them however they want with impunity.

Re: legal immigration. My understanding is that it is harder for people from certain countries to get visas to enter the country to work and live. It may be an issue of high demand i.e. lots of people from that country would migrate to the United States if they could and so we tend to try to manage what might be an overwhelming tide of immigrants. It may also be a security issue if the U.S. has a thorny relationship with the country of origin. I would guess it would be easier for people from countries that are quite developed and have a high standard of living already (thus people would be less eager to leave just to have a "better life" and so there would be fewer potential emigrants) and who are friendly with the U.S. than from those that aren't. But I don't really know.
__________________
maycocksean is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2010, 06:17 PM   #531
Refugee
 
A stor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: U.S.A. East Coast
Posts: 2,464
Local Time: 09:05 PM
I want to thank everyone for their post. Immigration is a very tough issue. So is health care reform. Good discussion, both pro and con, gave me a better perspective. I learned quite a bit from all of you.

The compassionate side of me says "yes, let them in." I know they are looking for a chance at a better life. Some of the places they are coming from, there is nothing. Living in a shanty, limited food and no work opportunities at all. The practical side.....Are we still able to offer that dream? With high unemployment and a very bad economy, right now. I don't want to see even more people homeless and begging in the streets for food. This hurts my soul, very deeply. I wish there was an easy answer.
__________________
A stor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2010, 06:51 PM   #532
Refugee
 
Bluer White's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Maine
Posts: 1,886
Local Time: 04:05 PM
YouTube - Gibbs: White House Apologizes to Sherrod

A teachable moment?
__________________
Bluer White is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2010, 08:50 PM   #533
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 40,684
Local Time: 03:05 PM
It's very much a teachable moment from people on all sides.

To those that distorted. To those that believed the distortion and yet still follow the distorter's ways.

To those that jumped the gun because of how it might look...
__________________
BVS is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2010, 09:13 PM   #534
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: The American Resistance
Posts: 4,754
Local Time: 03:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BVS View Post
It's very much a teachable moment from people on all sides.

To those that distorted. To those that believed the distortion and yet still follow the distorter's ways.
You mean like
Quote:
"I don't want my child going to kindergarten where it's 75% hispanic." Yes, this argument was actually used in here.
Talk about distortion and taking something out of context.
__________________
INDY500 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2010, 09:42 PM   #535
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 40,684
Local Time: 03:05 PM
I didn't want to bother looking for the quote. So yes, I may have not got the quote exactly but I didn't distort, I even asked for a clarification because I was floored from such a comment.
__________________
BVS is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2010, 08:52 AM   #536
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,493
Local Time: 04:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluer White View Post

A teachable moment?


yup. we learn that,

1. the White House -- so sensitive to charges of "reverse racism," like most of the mainstream media -- has done screwed this up but good, and has rightly apologized and reinstated Sherrod.

2. there is no lengths that the right wing media -- especially Fox News -- won't go to in order to stoke up a sense of white victimization. it's good for ratings, and it massages the beating heart of the Tea Party movement.

3. we learn that, yes, there is absolutely an enormous racial component to the Tea Party, and indeed to much resistance to anything this president has to do. if there's anything -- anything -- that Fox or Breitbart or Rush can do to increase the feeling that older, white voters are being fleeced by this black president. Limbaugh calls health care access to the working poor "reparations." Bretibart is left sputtering that, heck, those white farmers who became friends with Sherrod might be plants for all we know because who can say what is true or not?


right wing: stop being racist.
White House: stop overreacting and don't listen to them.


the NAACP got it right.
__________________
Irvine511 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2010, 09:53 AM   #537
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,493
Local Time: 04:05 PM
oh, and i hope Sherrod sues the shit out of Breitbart.

wait, would that be just another example of blacks liberals freeloading and expecting a handout and that's really just reparations and we don't want to pay their mortgages?
__________________
Irvine511 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2010, 10:22 AM   #538
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
maycocksean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: The Most Important State in the Union
Posts: 4,882
Local Time: 04:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by A stor View Post
I want to thank everyone for their post. Immigration is a very tough issue. So is health care reform. Good discussion, both pro and con, gave me a better perspective. I learned quite a bit from all of you.

The compassionate side of me says "yes, let them in." I know they are looking for a chance at a better life. Some of the places they are coming from, there is nothing. Living in a shanty, limited food and no work opportunities at all. The practical side.....Are we still able to offer that dream? With high unemployment and a very bad economy, right now. I don't want to see even more people homeless and begging in the streets for food. This hurts my soul, very deeply. I wish there was an easy answer.
It's true there are no easy answers. I don't know that the issue regarding illegal immigration is over whether we should "let them in" or "not let them in" but more how we should go about stopping illegal immigration and how illegal immigrants should be treated and what measures should be taken to apprehend them.

I don't know that any but a few extremists would make the argument for completely open borders.
__________________
maycocksean is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2010, 08:26 PM   #539
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: The American Resistance
Posts: 4,754
Local Time: 03:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irvine511 View Post
oh, and i hope Sherrod sues the shit out of Breitbart.

wait, would that be just another example of blacks liberals freeloading and expecting a handout and that's really just reparations and we don't want to pay their mortgages?
Wouldn't be the first time she sued and won a big settlement.
__________________
INDY500 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2010, 08:53 PM   #540
Refugee
 
Bluer White's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Maine
Posts: 1,886
Local Time: 04:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irvine511 View Post
oh, and i hope Sherrod sues the shit out of Breitbart.
Good luck with that suit.


On the other hand, she has yet another case against the federal government. You know, the folks who actually fired her.
__________________

__________________
Bluer White is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:05 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com