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Old 02-27-2012, 05:17 PM   #701
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How do you explain the economic upswings during the Reagan and Clinton administrations then?


(My apologies for forgetting my American history.)
I think what U2DMfan says above is true, but one other factor to take into consideration is that anytime you take away regulations you are going to get a TEMPORARY upswing. It only makes sense. Think about it, once you take away rules or guidelines a company, an individual, etc are going to cut corners as soon as they can. Cutting corners will lead to cheaper prices and/ or bigger profits. But this can only last for so long hence the bubbles.
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Old 02-28-2012, 03:27 AM   #702
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while i dislike the culture of assumed tipping, this guy should probably be fed to the wolves.
looks like it is fake

Sorry, The Restaurant Receipt Left By That Nasty, Rich Banker Is A Photoshop Hoax | The Smoking Gun
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Old 02-29-2012, 01:18 AM   #703
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Every time I begin to post something, I retract it and start over. Turns out my 'detailed answers' were much more about the problem than the answer.
*Nods* Totally understandable.

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It's complicated, there are so many issues...I feel like I could type a thousand words on this. It's such a clusterfuck, that I feel each facet needs to be explained, rather than making statements as facts without justification. And yet...any solution that can reach the idiotic masses, needs to be able to be dumbed down into a very concise argument.
I know. It's frustrating. I don't want to make it seem like people are being talked down to, I'd like to promote the message in a way that makes it clear the population "gets it". To insult their intelligence would be a big turn-off right away.

However...put too much talk in that sounds like the sort you could only understand if you were part of that group to begin with, and you're liable to confuse people. There needs to be a balance-not so dumbed down that we imply everyone hearing the message is stupid, but not so high-minded that people will be scratching their heads. Which is easier said than done.

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And that 'winnable' argument is that Republicans and Democrats don't care about the people anymore. They are more concerned with holding on to their elected office. I think you could get just about anyone to digest this, if it's done in the proper way.
Most definitely. On board with that so far.

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So, to begin...I think the easiest way to getting real reform is a motivated non-partisan grassroots effort and for the media to pick up on it. If we could get the John King's and Brett Baer's of the world to start talking to candidates about it, we could at least start a public dialogue. One of the big stumbling blocks to it, is making sure that the movement itself isn't swallowed up into the hyper-partisan bullshit. Both the Occupy movement and the Tea Party had a more wide appeal than they were eventually tagged with...part of this is after the politicians get involved (and the super simple news media) most of the 'middle' crowd says 'fuck this' and doesn't want to be associated with ignorance (see: Occupy Oakland and certain elements of the Tea Party).
Lord, yes. The movement needs to be taken seriously. Maybe we should take our cues from protests of the past where people generally did behave reasonably-look at certain notable figures from the past who protested in non-violent ways and didn't get into weird costumes or other attention-seeking craziness and just got their message across simply, and emulate them? Show by example and spread the message in a way that shows that this is a movement that needs to be taken seriously and means something?

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So the grassroots movement would have to be, from the jump, decidedly Independent. Conservative Independents, Libertarian Independents, Green Independents, Liberal Independents, Moderate Independents. All coalescing around one key issue. Returning the U.S. Government to true representative democracy.

Essentially, we're gonna have to bust up the Two Party Monopoly together. And this can only be done by totally disassociating with ALL Republicans and Democrats and considering them the enemy. You can be as conservative or liberal as you want, no ideological disagreements would matter. The main goal would be for petitions to circulate to get an Independent, from either side (more Liberal and more Conservative) on the national ballot.
I like that idea. Lord knows there's many people who'd probably want to try running as independents, or party members who, once they see how popular the independent option is, would consider jumping onboard.

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The asshole news media, which spent more time on Whitney Houston in one week than it has EVER spent covering term limits or lobby reform, would follow the herd. All they care about is getting asses in front of televisions, or clicks on websites. And so we should use the media to form the grassroots and not the other way around. Otherwise, the grassroots would quickly skew ideological from ignorant radicals.

Now, this is going to sound ridiculous at first but hear me out. What does the media flock to quicker than anything else? You could get a B-level celebrity on MSNBC or FOX quicker than you could get just about anyone short of Obama. Because as Boner likes to say, celebrity is ridiculous but it is currency and they should spend it wisely. If we could get a couple of real A-listers like Boner, ideally a conservative and a liberal, to team up and start selling the message of ending Big 'sold out' Government, then maybe people would at least start talking about it. The only agenda being - REFORM of the SYSTEM. No issues with which to divide us, just about having our votes mean something and forcing Republicans and Democrats to be accountable, only, to the people.
I know. Unfortunately it would take a big notable name, because if the movement is well-behaved and doesn't get into wacky "check this out" territory the media's going to find it boring and try and drum up excitement some other way. But hey, whatever helps. And no matter who it is, it needs to be someone who knows a lot about this subject (and doesn't have any hypocrisy about the issue or ties to anything, but just honestly believes in the topic at hand). If it's just your average celebrity spouting BS, that's not going to help.

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I think it would need to resemble...as ironic as this sounds...a lobby.
A Grover Norquist-like pledge system. They either pledge to support term limits, lobby reform and election reform, or we find primary candidates that will and defeat them.

That's about the only way I can see it happening. There are a couple of others but they would be MUCH more difficult. And part of what I was writing earlier (before erasing it), explaining the problem, was why there are so very, very few plausible options.
Fight fire with fire, huh ? I'd say that would mean it could look and sound like a lobby without all the downsides of one, but that still sounds like it's the start of something shady . But I do firmly believe that nothing terrifies the politicians more than an angry populace and the real threat of losing their jobs, so if this "lobby" of sorts manages to get that message across in a very notable way, it'll be a great start.

If that's our easiest option I fear to think of what you figure would be more difficult! That's why I wanted to know if there was any shot at even trying to get change, because it seems at this point we're so firmly entrenched in the situation we're in now that it almost seems hopeless to try. But I'm an optimist, so I like to think there's still hope. I think your idea is a fantastic one and in the technological age we live in I see no reason why it can't spread like wildfire. I think many people would be willing to jump onboard with the topics put forward-even if you aren't a political person by nature you have a general idea of what term limits and reform mean, and usually people are okay with that in some form or another.

I just fear it being a great idea that quickly descends into the same chaos we see all the time with protests nowadays. And humans being what they are, ESPECIALLY on the internet, that seems a very real possiblity.

But if anyone is willing to give this a shot, I say we try and get started anyway.
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Old 02-29-2012, 02:32 AM   #704
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The moral to the story is, the change has to come from us. And we have to enlighten ourselves collectively, that neither the Democrats nor Republicans are a good option, no matter how ideologically conservative or liberal you are. I just think we could use leadership in that movement. And nothing sells better than famous faces.

I might post an alternative option soon.
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Old 05-23-2012, 08:09 PM   #705
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Exclusive - The Vetting - Barack Obama, the First Tea Partier



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In 2009, President Barack Obama reportedly called members of the Tea Party "teabaggers." It turns out that our fourth greatest president, first in so many things, may have been the first "teabagger" himself, as seen in the 1997 photograph above. Yes, that really is Barack Obama wearing a regimental coat and carrying a tricorn hat in his hand. And that flag behind him really is a Gadsden flag, with its serpent and its "Don't Tread On Me" slogan. You may want to let all of this sink in a bit, especially if you're a Tea Party-bashing progressive.
Barack slow jammin' the Tea Party.
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Old 05-23-2012, 09:40 PM   #706
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Barack slow jammin' the Tea Party.
I didn't realize the Tea Party had a monopoly on use of colonial outfits and rhetoric, Indie.

But if you want to live in your conservative media/blogger self-validating echochamber (no better than the wacky lefty one) than may as well enjoy the glee you get from run of the mill Google Juice like this.
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Old 05-23-2012, 10:06 PM   #707
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Two years of snark here, from the left-wing media, and President Obama himself directed at the tricorn hats and Gadsden flag and lo and behold...

Sometimes a tall glass of Google Juice really hits the spot.
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Old 05-23-2012, 10:14 PM   #708
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Two years of snark here, from the left-wing media and President Obama himself directed at the tricorn hats and Gadsden flag and low and behold...:
If you think it's about the tricorn hats and Gadsden then you haven't learned or figured out a single thing in the last two years.
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Old 05-23-2012, 11:31 PM   #709
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I would love the Tea Party if it weren't for those damn hats and "Don't Tread on Me" flags. You are right about that, boss!
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Old 05-24-2012, 12:28 AM   #710
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Was he involved in a Tea Party style protest of the sort the current Tea Party has been involved in at the time of that photo? Or was this just some goofy parade/costume thing he was part of?

'Cause if it's the latter...then, um, yeah, the two situations aren't even close to comparable. And wow, yeah, some people made fun of the Tea Party's getups. People make fun of the goofy getups of ANY protest movement (lord knows the left certainly gets its share of ridicule for what it dresses up in sometimes at protests).

But ultimately, as stated, the costumes were the least of many people's objections to the current Tea Party.
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Old 05-25-2012, 12:43 PM   #711
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He forgot the poster of himself as a monkey

He looks really cute in that outfit, I wish he'd wear it again
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Old 05-10-2013, 08:58 PM   #712
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IRS official apologizes to tea party groups for "incorrect" scrutiny during 2012 election - CBS News

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IRS official apologizes to tea party groups for "incorrect" scrutiny during 2012 election

An IRS official apologized on Friday to tea party organizations and other conservative groups for inappropriately targeting them during the 2012 election, the Associated Press reports.

The groups, which enjoyed tax-exempt status under the internal revenue code, were singled out for additional scrutiny of their tax exemption if their names included the words "tea party" or "patriot." In several cases, the groups were asked to provide a list of donors for review, usually a violation of IRS policy.

"That was wrong. That was absolutely incorrect, it was insensitive, and it was inappropriate. That's not how we go about selecting cases," said Lois Lerner, the head of the IRS division that oversees tax-exempt groups. "The IRS would like to apologize for that."
Kinda vindicates the whole message.

Our...liberty...is...shrinking...because...the...federal...government...is...out...of...control!!!
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