Another US Patriot passes away..

[diamond]

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Pastor Who Helped Get "under God" In Pledge Dies
Pastor Credited With Getting "under God" Inserted In Pledge Of Allegiance Dies At 97

ALEXANDRIA, Pa., Nov. 29, 2008


(AP) A church official says the clergyman credited with helping to push Congress to insert the phrase "under God" into the Pledge of Allegiance has died in Alexandria, Pa. The Rev. George M. Docherty was 97.

Nancy Taylor, historian for the Huntingdon Presbyterian Church, says Docherty died on Thanksgiving at his home in Alexandria, with his wife, Sue, by his side.

Docherty delivered a sermon saying the pledge should acknowledge God in 1952 at Washington's New York Avenue Presbyterian Church, just blocks from the White House.

On Feb. 7, 1954, he delivered it again after learning that President Dwight Eisenhower would be at the church.

Congress inserted the words a few months later.

RIP.

<>

 

[the iron horse]

"In God we trust"


It would be nice, in my humble opinion, if the world could say those four words and believe.

 

[Vincent Vega]

"In God we trust"


It would be nice, in my humble opinion, if the world could say those four words and believe.

Thanks.

 

[toscano]

Home » U.S. » AP - US

Pastor Who Helped Get "under God" In Pledge Dies
Pastor Credited With Getting "under God" Inserted In Pledge Of Allegiance Dies At 97

ALEXANDRIA, Pa., Nov. 29, 2008


(AP) A church official says the clergyman credited with helping to push Congress to insert the phrase "under God" into the Pledge of Allegiance has died in Alexandria, Pa. The Rev. George M. Docherty was 97.

Nancy Taylor, historian for the Huntingdon Presbyterian Church, says Docherty died on Thanksgiving at his home in Alexandria, with his wife, Sue, by his side.

Docherty delivered a sermon saying the pledge should acknowledge God in 1952 at Washington's New York Avenue Presbyterian Church, just blocks from the White House.

On Feb. 7, 1954, he delivered it again after learning that President Dwight Eisenhower would be at the church.

Congress inserted the words a few months later.

RIP.

<>

How is he any more a patriot than your everyday American Atheist ?

 

[toscano]

A few more "true patriots"

Abraham Lincoln

"The Bible is not my book nor Christianity my profession. I could never give assent to the long, complicated statements of Christian dogma."

- Abraham Lincoln, American president (1809-1865).


Benjamin Franklin

"I have found Christian dogma unintelligible. Early in life, I absenteed myself from Christian assemblies."

"Lighthouses are more helpful then churches."

-Benjamin Franklin, American Founding Father, author, and inventor


-John Adams, U.S. President, Founding Father of the United States

"Where do we find a precept in the Bible for Creeds, Confessions, Doctrines and Oaths, and whole carloads of other trumpery that we find religion encumbered with in these days?"

"The divinity of Jesus is made a convenient cover for absurdity."

"This would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion in it."


Thomas Jefferson (Deist)

"History I believe furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance, of which their political as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purpose. " – Thomas Jefferson to Baron von Humboldt, 1813

"The Christian god can easily be pictured as virtually the same god as the many ancient gods of past civilizations. The Christian god is a three headed monster; cruel, vengeful and capricious. If one wishes to know more of this raging, three headed beast-like god, one only needs to look at the caliber of people who say they serve him. They are always of two classes: fools and hypocrites."

"Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity." –Thomas Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1782.

"And the day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerve in the brain of Jupiter. But may we hope that the dawn of reason and freedom of thought in these United States will do away with this artificial scaffolding, and restore to us the primitive and genuine doctrines of this most venerated reformer of human errors." –Thomas Jefferson, Letter to John Adams, April 11, 1823

"Religions are all alike – founded upon fables and mythologies."

"I do not find in orthodox Christianity one redeeming feature."

"Christianity is the most perverted system that ever shone on man."

"It does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are 20 gods, or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg."

- Thomas Jefferson, U.S. President, author, scientist, architect, educator, and diplomat


William Howard Taft

"I do not believe in the divinity of Christ, and there are many other of the postulates of the orthodox creed to which I cannot subscribe."

- William Howard Taft, U.S. President

 

[A_Wanderer]

Real heroes don't care about the constitution.

 

[the iron horse]

Thomas Jefferson!

Some more quotes:
Thomas Jefferson Quotes

 

[diamond]

While the people are virtuous they cannot be subdued; but once they lose their virtue, they will be ready to surrender their liberties to the first external or internal invader.... If virtue and knowledge are diffused among the people, they will never be enslaved. This will be their great security.

<>

 

[A_Wanderer]

In every country and every age, the priest had been hostile to Liberty

And he was a palaeontologist!

 

[toscano]

<>

Virtue is not the domain of the religious, nor does a belief in god automatically mean the believer is virtuous, in fact many are not.

For example, many religious people are bigots......

 

[BVS]

I'm sure he's a good man. I hope his family the best.

But he's no more a patriot than you or I...

I find it EXTREMELY hypocritical that someone who fights tooth and nail over a definition of a word, and one of our more outspoken "libertarians" who often asks literal questions like "where is this in the constitution" finds pride in someone who altered the true meaning of our constitution.

I guess some only stand up when it's in their own self interest.

 

[A_Wanderer]

If we accept that America is one nation under God then you must enforce that principle and protect your Christian heritage, please petition your politicians to outlaw unchristian movements such as Joseph Smiths cult and the Catholic puppets of Rome.

Take away the tax free status of these cults, only real religions (mainstream Protestant denominations) should receive state recognition. Be vigorous in stopping the cash flow to Salt Lake and Rome. Investigate the so-called "charity" organisations which take money from ignorant citizens and put it to use in undermining America's democratic institutions.

If America is one nation under God, stop allowing idolators and heretics to undermine it.

 

[Irvine511]

this was a little phrase designed to distinguish us from the godless communists.

it's an artifact, an antiquated pice of Cold War propaganda, nothing more.

i don't really care that it's there, and i wouldn't care if the phrase went away.

 

[yolland]

this was a little phrase designed to distinguish us from the godless communists.

it's an artifact, an antiquated pice of Cold War propaganda, nothing more.

Qft.

 

[LemonMelon]

Anyone care that he's dead? There are plenty of other threads out there for atheists and believers to kick the shit out of each other. I find the responses thus far quite disrespectful, honestly. I disagree with <> as much as the next guy, but he made a thread to honor someone he respects. You can score off of him in any other thread. But you don't need me to tell you that.

 

[A_Wanderer]

this was a little phrase designed to distinguish us from the godless communists.

it's an artifact, an antiquated pice of Cold War propaganda, nothing more.

i don't really care that it's there, and i wouldn't care if the phrase went away.

It may be there by historical accident, but it does have an impact on peoples conception of the nation.

Having said that, campaigns to get rid of these mentions of God are usually counterproductive and mobilise people against litigious atheists.

 

[yolland]

he made a thread to honor someone he respects.

I highly doubt this was the prime motive, frankly.

Nonetheless, point taken.

RIP

 

[A_Wanderer]

Anyone care that he's dead? There are plenty of other threads out there for atheists and believers to kick the shit out of each other. I find the responses thus far quite disrespectful, honestly. I disagree with <> as much as the next guy, but he made a thread to honor someone he respects. You can score off of him in any other thread. But you don't need me to tell you that.

FYM isn't a place for memorial threads, discussion matters, and when somebody dies people should be vigorously arguing their achievements.

If we have threads about Ronald Reagan, Yasser Arafat or Pope John-Paul II people point out the flaws and may even be pleased that these characters are dead, there is no obligation to get hagiographic towards humans because they are dead.

But I'm not judging this mans life, I am judging the validity of sticking God into government, and I know how much that offends your sensibilities, but frankly I don't care, people can make their own damn minds up on the basis of what someone produces.

 

[LemonMelon]

I highly doubt this was the prime motive, frankly.

Nonetheless, point taken.

RIP

Generally speaking, I take a lack of comments from the poster of a given article to mean that they wish for discussion to be solely about the article, and not the original posters opinion of the article. Unless you count the title, of course. Apparently, the definition of patriot varies from individual to individual.

If the Artist Formerly Known As <> is, in fact, stirring shit right now, then you can call me a hypocrite, or at the very least selective, because I've blasted A_W for the very same thing in the past.

 

[Vincent Vega]

Generally speaking, I take a lack of comments from the poster of a given article to mean that they wish for discussion to be solely about the article, and not the original posters opinion of the article. Unless you count the title, of course. Apparently, the definition of patriot varies from individual to individual.

If the Artist Formerly Known As <> is, in fact, stirring shit right now, then you can call me a hypocrite, or at the very least selective, because I've blasted A_W for the very same thing in the past.

It takes a little naivete to not see the intentions behind some of the threads or the reasons for articles to be posted, even with a lack of further comment.

And I don't really care that much about a person that has naturally passed at age 93.

 

[LemonMelon]

FYM isn't a place for memorial threads

1. What's your definition of "memorial"? I've never taken the word to mean anything inherently positive, it's just a remembrance of a person's life. You can do a eulogy without worshiping whomever you're speaking about.

2. Search for "RIP" in FYM sometime. There are countless memorial threads (of every definition) to be seen. Whether or not FYM is the place for them is another topic entirely, but <> hardly broke the mold here.

If we have threads about Ronald Reagan, Yasser Arafat or Pope John-Paul II people point out the flaws and may even be pleased that these characters are dead, there is no obligation to get hagiographic towards humans because they are dead.

And I wholly agree. Unfortunately, the current discussion is only tenuously related to the man. Unless childishly baiting one another with quotes has something to do with George Docherty. In which case, I apologize.

 

[BVS]

Anyone care that he's dead? There are plenty of other threads out there for atheists and believers to kick the shit out of each other. I find the responses thus far quite disrespectful, honestly. I disagree with <> as much as the next guy, but he made a thread to honor someone he respects. You can score off of him in any other thread. But you don't need me to tell you that.

Well that's why I started my post with respects to his family, but as you know by now, Diamond always has an underlying motive. He won't be posting any threads to fallen gay soldiers anytime soon calling them patriots.

 

[Irvine511]

Anyone care that he's dead? There are plenty of other threads out there for atheists and believers to kick the shit out of each other. I find the responses thus far quite disrespectful, honestly. I disagree with <> as much as the next guy, but he made a thread to honor someone he respects. You can score off of him in any other thread. But you don't need me to tell you that.

do you really think this thread was started solely to commemorate someone that no one has ever heard of?

this thread was subtext from the beginning. granted, not everyone has to take the bait, but there was no sort of sincerity in the first post.

 

[Irvine511]

Having said that, campaigns to get rid of these mentions of God are usually counterproductive and mobilise people against litigious atheists.

true enough, it might be that active atheists (for lack of a better word) do much more to legitimize the religious than they'd ever admit to.

it's better to ignore the believers, if you really want to drive them nuts.

 

[A_Wanderer]

If an atheist declares their position, which is usually mutually incompatible with theism, they are a fundamentalist atheist, A.C. Grayling asked the rhetorical question what is a moderate atheist, someone who believe God only partly exists? One can't take a perfectly reasonable position (there is no persuasive evidence for God, we have produced naturalistic answers for many questions) and defend the inevitable conclusions (religions are man-made, any appeal to scripture lacks authority, we have formulated our own moral systems) as well as the usual accusations (lacks objective morality, leads to abortion and faggotry etc).

Unless secular and atheistic ideas are promulgated in the public arena there is no recognition of that significant minority, it isn't a question of driving religious people nuts as much as much as it is protecting the freedom of unbelief and preventing state sponsorship of religion.

In this thread the OP is taking an imbecilic addition to the pledge of allegiance as being a long-standing piece of American history when it's really a recent addition, if you didn't have secularists raising this as an issue how many would assume that it has been there since the start?

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

FYM = one nation under <>

 

[BVS]

FYM = one nation under <>

What would you call yourself if you don't believe in <>?

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

<>=diamond.

There's no one who doesn't believe in diamond

If such a being exists he/she should be banished from the face of the earth

 

[BVS]

<>=diamond.

There's no one who doesn't believe in diamond

If such a being exists he/she should be banished from the face of the earth

I was just wondering what I'd be called.

Antimondist

Adavist

Non-diamond

 

[toscano]

I was just wondering what I'd be called.

Antimondist

Adavist

Non-diamond

Rational ?