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Old 12-30-2008, 08:58 PM   #61
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I think one day we'll be able to connect the dots and realize the competiveness of different religions here on earth was an affront to God.

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I agree, I have always thought the espousing of various religions that they are the one and only true religion, and anyone who doesnt follow it is screwed was a silly philosophy.

However, my point wasn't about competition, I was expanding on your point that all religions contain an element of truth.
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Old 12-30-2008, 09:08 PM   #62
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yes.


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Old 12-30-2008, 09:17 PM   #63
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Is that a response to my previous question?

Btw, I hope you're feeling better.
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Old 12-30-2008, 09:28 PM   #64
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correct,

thx,

off the pain killers now.


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Old 01-02-2009, 12:08 AM   #65
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You like NDE reports, here is a wonderful example from an expert who actually experienced one, and who is vastly more knowledgeable than I
YouTube - How it feels to have a stroke
It only goes for about 20 minutes and is a perfect example of an NDE, she explains what happens as she had a stroke and what she knew as it was happening.

It also shows off some really cool science.
Interesting, she did attest to her spiritual body leaving her physical body and going to the Peaceful Realm of the Spirit World.


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Then why do you feel the need to jump over these cheap tricks?
I dont.
I like listening to credible people living today explain their personal experiences that correlate with what God's written word says.

It's an additional witness that's all, and it's from live, living breathing human beings and isn't written in Old English.

If it helps strengthen somebody, or moves only one person into doing good, and believing in the hereafter thereby helping them become more compassionate here on earth, it's worth it to me-and I don't think it would be displeasing to God.

Here's another interesting NDE. She is an accomplished person: RN, Therapist, athlete and married to a MD:

YouTube - My Near-Death Experience

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Old 01-02-2009, 03:27 AM   #66
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Psychotherapist, theology major and sex therapist.

She had an aneurism while pushing weights, every single part of her description is consistent with physical causation. She saw the light, and moved through the tunnel, came to a location that she sensed was a room and experienced an emotional color (synesthesia). She then senses a being which tells her she has more to do, she believes that it is God, this being told her she should give the love she was experiencing in that state to the world; then she wakes up and signs off on surgery.

Oh, and the smash cut where she asks if she could say the word she said after waking up in the hospital, brilliant job by the unloader on that front.

She relates an experience which I have no reason to doubt, she seems like a smart and honest woman, she doesn't seem to have a reason to lie and this is obviously a significant event in her life.

This "classic" NDE profile really hints at physiochemical brain activity impacting consciousness. Our conscious minds emerge from physical activity in the brain, and what you have presented is perfectly compatible with a brain under severe stress. The important components of mind, such as agency detection (sensing the presence of a being), colour perception, spatial perception, emotion, vocalisation, body sense, became dislocated and disturbed; her thoughts had a profound sense of importance and conveyed significance; all aspects which are found with neurological conditions such as temporal lobe epilepsy and hallucinogenic drugs.

It also hints at the developing battleground of neuroscience in the war between scientific culture and biblical inerrancy, it is not inconceivable that by the end of this century we will understand enough about brain dynamics to conclusively explain the origin of consciousness and perceptions - these facts will shed light on the spiritual experience and tie them to materialistic causation. What we are arguing about now, the significance of NDE's represents some of the early salvos in this conflict; your theology is predicated on the existence of an immortal soul and disembodied consciousness, science is reaching the point where it can start undercutting those assertions and it is going to lead to conflict.
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Old 01-02-2009, 10:39 AM   #67
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The bible does not teach we have an immortal soul in fact it says the soul that sinneth it itself will die Ezek. 18:4:

the punishment for sin is death not to be send of to some place of hellish torment in fact hell in the bible actually just refers to the common grave of mankind if you study the actual hebrew text for the meaning of the word

Gen. 3:19: “In the sweat of your face you will eat bread until you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken. For dust you are and to dust you will return.”

death is a state of none existence where you cannot feel or think in fact death is more like a deep sleep,

Eccl. 9:5: “The living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all.”

Ps. 146:4: “His spirit goes out, he goes back to his ground; in that day his thoughts [“thoughts,”do perish.”

Lazarus our friend has gone to rest, but I am journeying there to awaken him from sleep.’ ... Jesus said to them outspokenly: ‘Lazarus has died

Eccl. 9:6: “Their love and their hate and their jealousy have already perished, and they have no portion anymore to time indefinite in anything that has to be done under the sun.”

Isa. 26:14: “They are dead; they will not live. Impotent in death, they will not rise up.”


Jesus brought Lazarus back from the dead as proof he had the power to bring people back from that non exsistent state of being ..to show how the resurrection would reunite families and friends that is what the real hope is

if Lazarus had died and gone to heaven to a happier place or where he was destined to go there would be bo need for Jesus to bring him back to earth the fact the Jesus cried and was upset about Lazarus death is further proff of this

Death is Gods enemy one he intends to do away with

revelations 21 v 3.4
With that I heard a loud voice from the throne say: “Look! The tent of God is with mankind, and he will reside with them, and they will be his peoples. And God himself will be with them. And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away.”

the immortality of the soul and that people go to heaven or punished in hell is not a bible teaching and stems from Greek and roman philosophies introduced in the later centurys of the christian church, which twisted certain scriptures to suit this philosophy

So from studying the Bible and knowing that the God I worship is a loving God who does not take children or loved ones from their parents and family through death so they can be in heaven with him nor punish them in some fiery tormemting hell place

which is why I fully understand why people baulk at the thought of an all powerful being who claims to be love doing such things, and they end up preferring not to want to worship such a God so I think its good for people to question these teaching and I find it strange that those who lack belief in God are the ones who see the hypocrisy and the unfairness of them

and although some seem to find comfort in them, I cannot reconcile those teaching with a loving God who it says that he even cares for the sparrows, and hated wickedness

but instead in truth the real hope isthat sometimes he will bring those asleep in death back to life is far more comforting and far more reasonable and logical, so I would tend to agree with A Wanderer's scientific proof that we have no immortal soul..

And I do know the Bible does have scriptures about people joining him in heaven and all the spiritual body stuff.. but it says they will rule as kings and priests so I am not saying there are not ones going to be in heaven but I can't go into all that on this forum because it would take too long..

I just want to make the point that in a general sense the Bible teaches that death is a state of none existence but not something that God cannot undo so we are not without hope of seeing those who have died again sometime in the future
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Old 01-03-2009, 03:29 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by annj View Post
The bible does not teach we have an immortal soul in fact it says the soul that sinneth it itself will die Ezek. 18:4:

the punishment for sin is death not to be send of to some place of hellish torment in fact hell in the bible actually just refers to the common grave of mankind if you study the actual hebrew text for the meaning of the word

Gen. 3:19: “In the sweat of your face you will eat bread until you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken. For dust you are and to dust you will return.”

death is a state of none existence where you cannot feel or think in fact death is more like a deep sleep,

Eccl. 9:5: “The living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all.”

Ps. 146:4: “His spirit goes out, he goes back to his ground; in that day his thoughts [“thoughts,”do perish.”

Lazarus our friend has gone to rest, but I am journeying there to awaken him from sleep.’ ... Jesus said to them outspokenly: ‘Lazarus has died

Eccl. 9:6: “Their love and their hate and their jealousy have already perished, and they have no portion anymore to time indefinite in anything that has to be done under the sun.”

Isa. 26:14: “They are dead; they will not live. Impotent in death, they will not rise up.”


Jesus brought Lazarus back from the dead as proof he had the power to bring people back from that non exsistent state of being ..to show how the resurrection would reunite families and friends that is what the real hope is

if Lazarus had died and gone to heaven to a happier place or where he was destined to go there would be bo need for Jesus to bring him back to earth the fact the Jesus cried and was upset about Lazarus death is further proff of this

Death is Gods enemy one he intends to do away with

revelations 21 v 3.4
With that I heard a loud voice from the throne say: “Look! The tent of God is with mankind, and he will reside with them, and they will be his peoples. And God himself will be with them. And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away.”

the immortality of the soul and that people go to heaven or punished in hell is not a bible teaching and stems from Greek and roman philosophies introduced in the later centurys of the christian church, which twisted certain scriptures to suit this philosophy

So from studying the Bible and knowing that the God I worship is a loving God who does not take children or loved ones from their parents and family through death so they can be in heaven with him nor punish them in some fiery tormemting hell place

which is why I fully understand why people baulk at the thought of an all powerful being who claims to be love doing such things, and they end up preferring not to want to worship such a God so I think its good for people to question these teaching and I find it strange that those who lack belief in God are the ones who see the hypocrisy and the unfairness of them

and although some seem to find comfort in them, I cannot reconcile those teaching with a loving God who it says that he even cares for the sparrows, and hated wickedness

but instead in truth the real hope isthat sometimes he will bring those asleep in death back to life is far more comforting and far more reasonable and logical, so I would tend to agree with A Wanderer's scientific proof that we have no immortal soul..

And I do know the Bible does have scriptures about people joining him in heaven and all the spiritual body stuff.. but it says they will rule as kings and priests so I am not saying there are not ones going to be in heaven but I can't go into all that on this forum because it would take too long..

I just want to make the point that in a general sense the Bible teaches that death is a state of none existence but not something that God cannot undo so we are not without hope of seeing those who have died again sometime in the future
Hmm..until Christ came along many didn't understand the the duality of our physical and spiritual bodies, but there is much more ample evidence of the nature of our souls being spiritual and eternal:

18For (AJ)Christ also died for sins (AK)once for all, the just for the unjust, so that He might (AL)bring us to God, having been put to death (AM)in the flesh, but made alive (AN)in the spirit;

19in which also He went and made proclamation to the spirits now in prison,

20who once were disobedient, when the (AO)patience of God (AP)kept waiting in the days of Noah, during the construction of (AQ)the ark, in which a few, that is, (AR)eight (AS)persons, were brought safely through the water
.

Also this former atheist would disagree with you and A_W about the nature of our souls and who Christ is and what He can do for us.

Say hello to Howard Storm:

YouTube - Howard Storm (former militant atheist) (Part 1) near death experience testimony
YouTube - Howard Storm (former militant atheist) (Part 2) near death experience testimony
YouTube - Howard Storm (former militant atheist) (Part 3) near death experience testimony
YouTube - Howard Storm (former militant atheist) (Part 4) near death experience testimony)
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Old 01-03-2009, 07:44 PM   #69
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Your religious beliefs put up this shield, which lets in any new-age propositions about NDE's with a reinforcement bias towards Christian apologetics; you don't question the knowledge which people have before their brain starts dying (such as being raised in a Christian household), or even acknowledge the physicality of the mind; you embrace a crude Cartesian dualism which separates the conscious mind from the body but don't have any proposed way of these two substances interacting, you seem blind to the point of drugs which show physiochemical changes in the brain effect the mind and the implications which that has for NDE reports.

I could have a revelation that Allah is the one true God, that Christianity is partly true, but that Mormonism is a form of unbelief, but that wouldn't validate any of my claims. Likewise somebody having religious visions, either in their day to day lives or as an NDE doesn't validate any religious belief; souls leaving bodies or God telling them facts are empirical questions, possible answers out of many, and we can put confidences on different possibilities; which you plainly don't want to do.

Your research seems to be reinforcing your biases, you read plenty of books but are they all written from anecdotes, do your current sources either ignore or just dismiss the alternative explanations. You're obviously interested so why not pick up a popular science book on neurology (V.S. Ramachandran or Oliver Sacks); they give case reports about individuals with weird and wonderful conditions, and break down how these conditions occur.

Here is a piece which describes what happens when a humans heart stops
Quote:
The flow of blood to the body stops because the heartbeat is so abnormal that no blood is pumped by the heart, or the heart stops beating, and the brain is subjected to total oxygen starvation. The small reserve of oxygen within the blood and the cells of the brain is soon exhausted, causing rapidly progressive oxygen starvation. Oxygen starvation of the brain first causes failure of prefrontal cortex function, causing the patient to feels serene and indifferent as he/she gradually "fades away". Subsequently, oxygen starvation of the brain causes failure of those parts of the brain called the supplementary motor cortex, the frontal eye fields, Broca's speech cortex, and the primary motor cortex. Failure of these parts of the brain causes the eyes to stare fixedly straight ahead, the person is paralyzed and unable to move or speak, even when they try to do these things. At this time the retina also fails due to oxygen starvation, and the patient feels their vision failing - they see grey or everything becomes dark. Yet surprisingly they are able to hear quite well at this time because hearing is one of the last senses to fail.

Within 5-20 seconds the person is unconscious, can sense nothing and experience nothing. Their body is discovered and resuscitation with heart massage commences. About 1 in 5 (20%) of all people performing cardiac massage is so efficient their efforts generate a flow of blood around the body sufficient to restore consciousness. Sometimes this flow of blood is sufficient to restore normal consciousness, but usually it is just sufficient to restore some degree of consciousness, but not normal consciousness. Normal consciousness takes longer to return than it takes to restore pumping action of the heart.

Oxygen starvation of the eyes is somewhat reversed, restoring some central vision. At the same time, oxygen starvation, stress, and adrenaline administered as part of the resuscitation medication causes the pupils to be wide open - so patients see a bright light at the end of a tunnel. Furthermore, abnormal interpretation of bodily sensations, together with abnormal muscle spindle function generates sensations of movement and floating - so the person perceives themselves to be traveling down this tunnel towards the bright light. Restoration of entire retina function restores the ability to see light, but does not restore normal brain function, nor does it restore normal pupil size (adrenaline effect). So the person perceives themselves to be passing out of the tunnel into the light - they are "enveloped by the light".

At this same time, having passed into the light, while consciousness is gradually returning, but still abnormal, a person may undergo wondrous hallucinatory experiences. Such experiences are partly delusory due to misinterpretation of bodily sensations, sometimes due to abnormal electrical activity in parts of the brain such as the hippocampus which is very sensitive to oxygen starvation. The latter can also generate sensations of life review, while abnormal electrical activity in the rest of the temporal lobe can also generate sensations of immaterial presences, or of religious figures.

The resuscitation progresses, and consciousness returns to near normal. The resuscitating doctors and nurses speak, and what they say, what they do, and all other sounds are heard by the patient, while still paralyzed due to oxygen starvation and apparently unconscious. The doctors and the nurses regularly open the eyes of the patient to shine a light into the eyes to check papillary reactions to light. And sometimes the eyes of a patient remain open during a resuscitation. So some patients can see what is happening around their bodies during their resuscitation. These sensations, combined with abnormal sensory information from muscle spindles, combined with abnormal interpretation of muscle spindle sensations can generate sensations of displacement and movement out of the body - all these things combine to generate out of body experiences during which the person sees and hears everything occurring to their body and around their body. Failure of prefrontal function means they still feel calm and serene at this time, as well as indifferent to pain.

Finally, resuscitation is successful - normal pumping action of the heart is restored, and the person eventually awakens. Some peopleremember all these wondrous experiences, and tell others what happened during the period they lay still and motionless, apparently unconscious, during the resuscitation for their cardiac arrest
cardiac arrest and near death experiences
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Old 01-03-2009, 08:28 PM   #70
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A much better explanation than my musings from Stephen Novella (who is a neurologist, but his arguments do not make an appeal to authority)
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Near death experiences (NDEs) have been a favorite topic for the paranormal crowd for some time. If one could prove that consciousness survives the physical death of the body that would go a long way to opening the door to a wide range of paranormal claims. NDEs often occur in the medical setting, and this is partly why a team of doctors from the UK and USA are planning a rigorous study of NDEs.

That NDEs occur is not controversial - many people report remembering experiences around the time of cardiac arrest from which they were revived. Typical experiences include a sense of floating outside of one’s body, even looking down upon oneself and the events going on. Some people report a bright light, and others report “passing over” and being greeted by deceased loved-ones. The experience is often peaceful or euphoric, which contrasts to the way people feel when they eventually wake up. Surviving a cardiac arrest takes its toll and is not a pleasant experience.

The question is not whether or not people have such experiences - the question is how to interpret them. Just as even the most rigorous skeptic does not question that people see UFOs, but rather what the UFOs likely are.

The burden of proof for anyone claiming that NDEs are evidence for the survival of the self beyond the physical function of the brain is to rule out other more prosaic explanations. This burden has not been met.

Neuroscientists are piecing together plausible explanations for each of the components of the NDE. The sensation of floating outside one’s body can be reliably induced by suppressing that part of the brain that makes us feel as if we possess our bodies. The experience is identical to that reported by those who have had an NDE. This experience can be replicated by drugs or magnetic stimulation. There are even reports (I have had one such patient) of people who have a typical NDE experience during seizures. The bright light can be explained as a function of hypoxia (relative lack of oxygen) either to the retina or the visual cortex. Any everything else is simply the culturally appropriate hallucinations of a hypoxic brain.

Critics of such explanation try to argue that during the experience the brain is not active, therefore the brain cannot be the source of the experiences. There are two problems with this argument. First, it has not been established that the brain is not sufficiently active to generate experiences. In all cases people survived the experience (by definition) to report what they remember. That means the brain did not go entirely without oxygen for very long or otherwise it would have been catastrophically damaged. During cardiopulmonary resuscitation (CPR) the cardiac output is about 20-25% normal - enough to delay damage to tissues. So the brain is getting some oxygen. Not enough to be conscious, but enough to have some function - perhaps generate a dream-like hallucination or out-of-body experience.

Second, the argument assumes without justification that the memories reported by those who survive CPR and have an NDE were formed during the CPR or when they were unconscious. It is more likely that some or all of those memories formed when the person was waking up adn their sense of time is as distorted as all their brain function. Unlike in the movies, people do not wake up fully conscious and lucid after having their heart restarted. After minutes of CPR the brain has taken a hit due to the hypoxia. People typically wake from this event slowly - taking hours or even days, depending on the duration and quality of the CPR. They will necessarily pass through a phase where they are what is called encephalopathic (their brain is functioning but not well), which is a type of delirium. It is common to have bizarre thoughts and perceptions, hallucination, and illusions during this period.

When patients then fully wake up to report their experiences, all they have is their memories, which includes the memories of the transition period from unconscious, through a delirious period, and to fully conscious. They have no way of knowing when those memories formed.

The only way to definitively distinguish between memories formed during CPR and those formed during the period of encephalopathy is for the memories to contain specific details that could only have been obtained during the CPR. This claim is often made, but either there is a lack of compelling documentation, or the details are too vague to be definitive. People describing a typical CPR experience, for example, is not specific. Sometimes people after a NDE will claim to recognize the nurse or doctor who worked on them, but they may just be attaching those memories to people they encountered before or after the experience.

This brings us to the proposed study. What Dr. Sam Parnia, the head of the study, wants to do is to place a sign with specific information on it on top of shelving so that it can only be viewed from the ceiling. These will be placed in intensive care units and emergency departments. Patients who experience cardiac arrest and survive will be systematically interviewed at the participating hospitals and asked if they had any NDE and also be asked if they were able to identify the signs on top of the shelves. Assuming no cheating goes on, the only way such patients could have obtained the information would be if there experience of floating above their bodies was an actual experience interacting with the real physical world.

The study is likely to take 2-3 years so we won’t have results for a while.

The purpose of the study explicitly recognizes that the claim that NDEs are a non-physical experience of consciousness requires this type of evidence to distinguish it from a mere hallucination of a hypoxic or encephalopathic brain. I predict that the study will be negative, and that proponents of NDEs as a spiritual experience will be unmoved by this evidence.
NeuroLogica Blog � Studying Near Death Experiences
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Old 01-03-2009, 09:00 PM   #71
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A_W,

Those last 2 posts did little to persuade me.
The last article one glosses over NDEs superficially.

When kids surviving NDEs come back and tell their mother that they met future siblings, when the parents have been told that they can't have anymore children-and then they do-NDEs like this go ignored or it's explained away by biased ppl in your camp as a lucky guesses.. etc.

Or in other instances when little kids have died and come back and tell their parents that they met their deceased Grandparents on the otherside, now know their names and can pick them out in a photo line up and it was never even mentioned that they had deceased Grandparents, ppl in your camp dimiss it.

You wrong about the Mormonism part. All the NDEs are incorporated in LDS religious doctrine, but that's a discussion for a different thread. Just know Joseph Smith told the world in his day what all of the people are now claiming in their NDEs today. He only said it about 200 years earlier and that was one of the reasons people killed him.
The world wasn't ready for the information yet.

Lastly, listen to a fellow Aussie Ian McCormick. A reformed agnostic hedonist after being pronounced dead taken to the morgue due to 5 Box Jelly Fish posioning him while diving..

This guy is the real deal. He had a bad and good NDE-Hell first than after repenting while dying He met Christ.

This guy is the real deal.



Revelation - Encounter With GOD - Part 1
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Old 01-03-2009, 09:22 PM   #72
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A_W,

Those last 2 posts did little to persuade me.
I think the feeling is mutual. It seems pretty clear neither side is budging in this argument.
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Old 01-03-2009, 09:43 PM   #73
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You are overlooking the point about these visions, they are heavily influenced by a persons personality and life-experience.

The early studies into hallucinogenic drugs such as the Marsh Chapel Experiment (which has been backed up by a more recent study) demonstrated how profound religious experiences and visions could be experienced under the influence of psilocybin. The volunteers were all religious divinity majors and their experiences were dominantly spiritual. I know nonbelievers who have had spiritual experiences using similar drugs. I can't say that my anecdotal evidence is scientific, but the psilocybin studies are; and they fit what is understood about the brain being the source of mind.

Those experiments demonstrate the altered brain states will produce hallucinations that have the context of a persons pre-existing belief systems. I would be willing to bet that atheists and agnostics who experience Christian NDE's are more likely to have been raised in a Christian household and then turned away from religion than the entire population of atheists and agnostics; that is an open question, but one which can be answered.

If you could produce people who had never learned about the existence of Jesus, or a monotheistic God (such as pre-Columbian Native Americans, Australian Aborigines, Feudal Japanese people), who recorded revelation about the existence of only one God, who sent his only son to die for our sins, it might raise some important questions. If somebody who had no foreknowledge of Christian theology experienced divine revelation which was congruent with what is in the Bible then you might have something. But you would have to have very strong evidence to support that lack of foreknowledge, and ideally you would have numerous examples of this. As it stands you haven't done this, and the interesting cases that seemed interesting from anecdotal evidence haven't panned out.

I am not writing off their experiences, I will grant you that they did experience visions which dramatically altered their lives; nobody is contesting that. What I am saying is that the evidence supports physical changes in brain activity as a cause of the vision. The components of the visions are all derived from pre-existing concepts about life after death which they already knew about, and nobody has produced any strong evidence that these are supernatural experiences.

You want to believe in the persistence of consciousness of life after death, that for all the suffering in the world there is a reason for it, that there is a guiding hand of a loving God; you let your desire for an afterlife slant your acceptance of testimony, you only look at claims which reinforce your wishes and fully ignore the evidential explanations which can answer the "why" questions of the Near Death Experience.

I think I can account for my own biases and see where I am only speculating. The idea that a physical brain produces my consciousness is supported by the evidence. The consequence of this fact is that consciousness cannot persist when the brain stops functioning. All of us die, all of our brains shut down, and all of us cease to exist; we have no cause to fear death, for a a dead brain cannot experience fear. This plain answer may not be as hopeful or terrible as eternal servitude, but I don't feel an urge to stop existing, and it makes my life that much more important to me; no matter how much one might want to live on that wish wouldn't change the facts, we should try to acknowledge how things are and to try and live our lives in light of a finite existence.

The conclusion that there is no conscious afterlife follows from accepting that mind is strictly a product of physical brain states. Even if this model of mind is somehow wrong, and mind is ineffable and survives the death of the body, this doesn't directly lead to the existence of any God.

There could be an afterlife but no God; you betray your lack of imagination when you assume that proof of an afterlife is proof of God, and not just any God - but your God. It's obvious that your thinking is rusted with bias and no amount of evidence (other than personal experience) could force you to question you assumptions. I do hope that anybody that reads this considers the implications of a physical mind and asks questions about their beliefs in light of this.
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Old 01-03-2009, 10:05 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by Diemen View Post
I think the feeling is mutual. It seems pretty clear neither side is budging in this argument.
I've had fun watching this, but yes, it's pretty clear that "science suggests..." isn't going to persuade the Artist Formerly Known As <>, and first-hand accounts are just going to shrugged off by A_W. It is what it is. Science can't offer anything more than suggestions at this point (although it is suggested that, by the year 3010, God will be shown to be a farce through the power of science by A_W's absurdly pretentious disembodied head), and anecdotal evidence is impossible to be analyzed, so, like all debates involving religion or the supernatural, no one has an answer that will please both sides. It's not exactly pointless, as it may enlighten outsiders, but no one involved will ever agree. This is why I never bothered to join in.
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Old 01-03-2009, 10:30 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LemonMelon View Post
I've had fun watching this, but yes, it's pretty clear that "science suggests..." isn't going to persuade the Artist Formerly Known As <>, and first-hand accounts are just going to shrugged off by A_W. It is what it is. Science can't offer anything more than suggestions at this point (although it is suggested that, by the year 3010, God will be shown as a farce through the power of science by A_W's disembodied head), and anecdotal evidence is impossible to be analyzed, so, like all debates involving religion or the supernatural, no one has an answer that will please both sides. It's not exactly pointless, as it may enlighten outsiders, but no one involved will ever agree. This is why I never bothered to join in.

Now, now let it be understood that I acknowledge and appreciate the scientific facts that A_W has posted.

It's common knowledge that we humans only use 10% of our brains, and I think God did that for a reason. He personally blocked out a memory of the eternal nature of our souls-so that we can grow here in this sphere. What we learn here we will take back w/us when we meet with Him again.

I also agree with the left side/right side linear thinking/ceberal thinking sides of the brain, and I suspect God made A_W's left side slightly larger to perhaps humble him a bit later on in life.


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