An open letter to George W. Bush - Page 5 - U2 Feedback

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Old 01-21-2009, 11:26 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by BonoVoxSupastar View Post
I don't think time is as much a factor these days on legacy as it was with Truman and Ford. With technology and media we have much more access to information, therefore I don't think time plays the factor it once did...
Ah, so with better technology in the 1950s, Americans would have approved of Truman and the Korean war.


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Unless new information comes out or something good comes out of one of Bush's left over policies history will not be kind...
Gradually, more and more people will begin to understand that removing Saddam was necessity. Few people will argue that Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, the Persian Gulf, United States and the rest of the world would be safer today if Saddam's regime were still there. Except for some liberals so obsessed with their hatred of W that they would say anything including that Kuwait would be safer with Saddam in power in Baghdad.


Lets not forget what the hero of many Democrats said before he left office:


The hard fact is, that so long as Saddam remains in power, he threatens the well being of his people, the peace of his region, THE SECURITY OF THE WORLD. The best way to end that threat, once and for all, is with a new Iraqi government, a government ready to live in peace with its neighbors, a government that respects the rights of its people.


Bill Clinton


George Bush's policies removed Saddam from power there by removing an enormous threat to global security and helped replace the Saddam's regime with a new government, a government that is still developing, but provided the United States remains committed to its success, will be a government that will live in peace with its neighbors and respects the rights of its people in a way that no Iraqi government in history has to date.
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Old 01-21-2009, 11:46 PM   #62
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Gerald Ford left office with a relatively high approval rating, but evaluations of his presidency have tumbled over time.

and that's about as relevant as any other example, and are less self-serving.
Gerald Ford left office because he failed to win his first run at the White House. He was never elected President, unlike George Bush who was elected and then re-elected. Ford was in office 2 years and 5 months, George Bush was in office a full 8 years, the maximum allowed by the constitution today.

The removal of Saddam's regime from power in Iraq and the removal of the taliban regime from power in Afghanistan are two regime removals that the majority of people in the future are not going to want to reverse or wish had not happened. Both are beneficial to US and global security, and with time just as happened with the Korean War, the publics approval ratings of both will increase, and as a result, so will President Bush's.
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Old 01-22-2009, 12:11 AM   #63
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I'm not accusing anyone in this thread of such things, but what I really don't get is the rampant hatred of this man. I have never seen anything like it. At the swearing in of the new President, the current President is jeered and booed. I don't think it gets much more classless than that. You disagree with him? Fine. You even think he's stupid? Fine. But there is absolutely no reason to hate a man who for 8 years served his country to the best of his ability, and did what he thought was right. It would have been really simple to back off and do what the polls were telling him to do. It takes a real man of principle to stick to what he feels is right--even when 70% of people are saying it is wrong. Make all the jokes about that you want to. But think about it first--why go through all the shit he has had to endure for something he didn't believe in 100%?

Most of us only have first hand knowledge of 3-4 Presidents at most. So unless you are a Presidential historian, saying he is the worst President ever doesn't carry much weight. It's also nearly impossible to judge that at this point, with so many of the things Bush set into motion yet to play out completely. Alot of people say Jimmy Carter was a horrible President. Maybe he was, but I don't believe he was or is a bad person. I have the same feelings about President Bush. He is a good man who did what he felt was best for the country he loves. History is the only one who can judge his success rate. Did he screw up sometimes? Sure. Show me a leader anywhere who hasn't. Clinton did, HW Bush did, Reagan did, and yes, Obama will.

I still think one of the main reasons for his approval ratings is his lack of ability to communicate clearly to the American public. Clinton and Reagan could pretty much do whatever they wanted and we would take it because they could spin it in a way that we bought--it seems like Obama has this gift as well. Bush never has been able to do that--I don't think even an extremely loyal supporter of his would deny that.
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Old 01-22-2009, 12:13 AM   #64
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Yeah and they let go of a terrorist that went out into the battlefield. I don't think errors that happen in war mean Obama will want to remove the Patriot Act.
What?
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Old 01-22-2009, 12:27 AM   #65
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Ah, so with better technology in the 1950s, Americans would have approved of Truman and the Korean war.
I'm guessing with the wink that this was meant to be a joke(you don't often joke so I'm not sure), if not you missed my point by miles!!!




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Gradually, more and more people will begin to understand that removing Saddam was necessity. Few people will argue that Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, the Persian Gulf, United States and the rest of the world would be safer today if Saddam's regime were still there. Except for some liberals so obsessed with their hatred of W that they would say anything including that Kuwait would be safer with Saddam in power in Baghdad.
Well the argument of if the world is safer with or without Saddam probably won't be the question. This is something I'm pretty sure you will never understand, because honestly that's not the issue. In fact not even Rush or Hannity are making these types of accusations, that the left thinks the world would be safer with Saddam still in power.

You still may have support for this war, but I'm guessing you are almost close to alone in your line of thinking and attack.

The question will not be if the world thought we would be safer... The question that the history books will speak of is was this war legal, what was the true motive, why wasn't there a cohesive global backing if this was so dire, and what did it have to do with the war on terror?

And my humble guess, is that more information will slowly leak out over the years that this administration knew a little more than they admit now about not having WMDs or any real ties to the "war on terrorism".
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Old 01-22-2009, 05:55 AM   #66
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I'm not accusing anyone in this thread of such things, but what I really don't get is the rampant hatred of this man. I have never seen anything like it. At the swearing in of the new President, the current President is jeered and booed. I don't think it gets much more classless than that. You disagree with him? Fine. You even think he's stupid? Fine. But there is absolutely no reason to hate a man who for 8 years served his country to the best of his ability, and did what he thought was right. It would have been really simple to back off and do what the polls were telling him to do. It takes a real man of principle to stick to what he feels is right--even when 70% of people are saying it is wrong. Make all the jokes about that you want to. But think about it first--why go through all the shit he has had to endure for something he didn't believe in 100%?

Most of us only have first hand knowledge of 3-4 Presidents at most. So unless you are a Presidential historian, saying he is the worst President ever doesn't carry much weight. It's also nearly impossible to judge that at this point, with so many of the things Bush set into motion yet to play out completely. Alot of people say Jimmy Carter was a horrible President. Maybe he was, but I don't believe he was or is a bad person. I have the same feelings about President Bush. He is a good man who did what he felt was best for the country he loves. History is the only one who can judge his success rate. Did he screw up sometimes? Sure. Show me a leader anywhere who hasn't. Clinton did, HW Bush did, Reagan did, and yes, Obama will.

I still think one of the main reasons for his approval ratings is his lack of ability to communicate clearly to the American public. Clinton and Reagan could pretty much do whatever they wanted and we would take it because they could spin it in a way that we bought--it seems like Obama has this gift as well. Bush never has been able to do that--I don't think even an extremely loyal supporter of his would deny that.
Totally BRILLIANT reply!
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Old 01-22-2009, 08:34 AM   #67
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At the swearing in of the new President, the current President is jeered and booed. I don't think it gets much more classless than that.

And did not the republicans do the same thing when McCain conceded? People boo, who gives a toss, they were disappointed, demos hate the ADMINS guts.

Bush was weak, he seemed oblivious to bigger problems, he focussed on Iraq when he should have continued his hunt for Osama, he let the country decline into the biggest economic meltdown but mostly he surrounded himself with vile evil greedy men who cared nothing about no other person then they're own personal gain.

I don't hate GWB, i feel sorry for him because he is going down in history as the worst president with the worst admin. ever.
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Old 01-22-2009, 08:59 AM   #68
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and did not the republicans do the same thing when mccain conceded? People boo, who gives a toss, they were disappointed, demos hate the admins guts.
exactly!
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Old 01-22-2009, 09:22 AM   #69
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What?
Pentagon: 61 ex-Guantanamo inmates return to terrorism - Yahoo! News

This sucks.
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Old 01-22-2009, 09:28 AM   #70
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Of course it sucks....but this is only the beginning.
Just wait until they close Gitmo, start releasing the terrorists there and then pull out of Iraq as fast as they can ....then we'll REALLY have a very safe world won't we.....

Oh well....as long as the Bush-haters are happy, that's all that counts.
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Old 01-22-2009, 09:58 AM   #71
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Yes, but I asked "what?" because of the context of your reply...

The post you quoted said:

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you know that not a single person who was a victim of "extraordinary rendition" was ever found to have any link at all to terrorism. not even one.
This you didn't answer.

As for your article, I hate to sound caloused but it's crap.

Ask yourself these questions:

Why were they released if they had evidence linking them to terrorism?

How is they know they've returned to terrorism but haven't captured them? You kept close enough tabs to find out what they are doing, but not close enough to recaputre them? I don't buy it.

And finally, if you were innocent and locked up without council for 6 years and then one day released do you think you would be pissed at America? So maybe even the innocent ones we're turning into terrorists...

I don't know why you and Achtung Bono believe you know what's going on, I don't know why you just trust that these men are guilty. This administration hasn't done one thing to give you faith in Gitmo, it's been a clusterfuck from the beginning.
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Old 01-22-2009, 12:13 PM   #72
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I still think one of the main reasons for his approval ratings is his lack of ability to communicate clearly to the American public. Clinton and Reagan could pretty much do whatever they wanted and we would take it because they could spin it in a way that we bought--it seems like Obama has this gift as well. Bush never has been able to do that--I don't think even an extremely loyal supporter of his would deny that.

can you think of any differences between Bush 2 and Clinton or Regan? i mean, more specifically, do you think the fact that Bush presided over the biggest mass murder in American history, manipulated intelligence to start an unnecessary war that's dragged on for 6 years, destabilized Pakistan, emboldened Iran, failed to get anywhere with Israel/Palestine, cut taxes and increased spending in a time of war, authorized torture, wildly expanded the powers of the executive branch, turned the DOJ into a tool of political revenge, and lost the city of New Orleans might have something to do with it? think of the hundreds of thousands of people that have died. perhaps that's why people booed?
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Old 01-22-2009, 12:15 PM   #73
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Well the argument of if the world is safer with or without Saddam probably won't be the question. This is something I'm pretty sure you will never understand, because honestly that's not the issue. In fact not even Rush or Hannity are making these types of accusations, that the left thinks the world would be safer with Saddam still in power.


this is exactly it. the fact that Saddam is out of power is entirely besides the point, as is the discussion around the fact that how Saddam was removed from power was a colossal disaster.

what matters now is dealing with this new tinderbox that's been created in the middle of the most dysfunctional place on earth.
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Old 01-22-2009, 12:19 PM   #74
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Of course it sucks....but this is only the beginning.
Just wait until they close Gitmo, start releasing the terrorists there and then pull out of Iraq as fast as they can ....then we'll REALLY have a very safe world won't we.....


since you're so certain that everyone in Gitmo are terrorists, it shouldn't be that hard to bring charges against them and have them stand trial for the crimes they've committed. then, they'll be found guilty, and they can be put in jail or whatever.

it's not that anyone wants to set terrorists free -- as is the vicious insinuation on the right -- but more that it's a bad thing to have a group of 200 people who continue to be detained after 7+ years who have yet to be charged with a specific crime.

if they're terrorists who are going to murder western children as they sleep and then drink their blood, fine. charge them! put them on trial!

but that hasn't happened.
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Old 01-22-2009, 12:21 PM   #75
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Yeah, I don't understand the mentality of most right-wingers on Gitmo. Especially the ones who believe in the death penalty. In that sense, all the terrorists are going unpunished at Gitmo.
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