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Old 01-19-2009, 05:50 PM   #16
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What are you talking about the war is done, mission accomplished...

See?

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Old 01-19-2009, 05:53 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by The_Pac_Mule View Post
umm when have we lost Iraq? As far as I know, were still there fighting Al Queda..

also I find it funny how we can talk about this and be calm in control, where-as all the anti-bush people explode about the subject


that might be because we're concerned that people have died for WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION that were never found, never existed, and were fabricated in order to facilitate a needless invasion in a country that posed no threat at all to the united states.

maybe you're okay with an administration manipulating not just intelligence but the murder of 3,000 people in new york in order to muster up just enough support to get behind an invasion that they'd been planning for a decade. and then they finally invade, and the fuck the whole thing up. have you been under a rock for 2004, 2005, 2006, and 2007? do you know how many Iraqis have died? do you know that we actually don't have unlimited blood and treasure to pour into this morass of ancient and irrational hatred?

or do you just like to wave flags? do you think the Republicans have done a good job over the past 8 years? honestly. really, think hard about this. be honest.
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Old 01-19-2009, 05:58 PM   #18
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I want Bush's time machine which can go back and fabricate the WMD intelligence to justify Clintonian bombing runs and sanctions against Iraq.
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Old 01-19-2009, 06:01 PM   #19
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I want Bush's time machine which can go back and fabricate the WMD intelligence to justify Clintonian bombing runs and sanctions against Iraq.


yes, because that's totally the same because Clinton thought that the WMDs posed such a threat to the United States itself that it was worth a full-scale invasion.

because no one thought that. not even in 2003.
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Old 01-19-2009, 06:22 PM   #20
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How many politicians and bureaucrats opposed the invasion on the basis that Saddam Hussein wasn't threat to US interests?
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Old 01-19-2009, 06:28 PM   #21
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WASHINGTON (CNN) -- In a major victory for the White House, the Senate early Friday voted 77-23 to authorize President Bush to attack Iraq if Saddam Hussein refuses to give up weapons of mass destruction as required by U.N. resolutions.

Hours earlier, the House approved an identical resolution, 296-133.

The president praised the congressional action, declaring "America speaks with one voice."

"The Congress has spoken clearly to the international community and the United Nations Security Council," Bush said in a statement. "Saddam Hussein and his outlaw regime pose a grave threat to the region, the world and the United States. Inaction is not an option, disarmament is a must."

While the outcome of the vote was never in doubt, its passage followed several days of spirited debate in which a small but vocal group of lawmakers charged the resolution was too broad and premature.

The resolution requires Bush to declare to Congress either before or within 48 hours after beginning military action that diplomatic efforts to enforce the U.N. resolutions have failed.

Bush also must certify that action against Iraq would not hinder efforts to pursue the al Qaeda terrorist network that attacked New York and Washington last year. And it requires the administration to report to Congress on the progress of any war with Iraq every 60 days.

The measure passed the Senate and House by wider margins than the 1991 resolution that empowered the current president's father to go to war to expel Iraq from Kuwait. That measure passed 250-183 in the House and 52-47 in the Senate.

The Bush administration and its supporters in Congress say Saddam has kept a stockpile of chemical and biological weapons in violation of U.N. resolutions and has continued efforts to develop nuclear weapons. Bush also has argued that Iraq could give chemical or biological weapons to terrorists.

Iraq has denied having weapons of mass destruction and has offered to allow U.N. weapons inspectors to return for the first time since 1998. Deputy Prime Minister Abdul Tawab Al-Mulah Huwaish called the allegations "lies" Thursday and offered to let U.S. officials inspect plants they say are developing nuclear, biological and chemical weapons.

"If the American administration is interested in inspecting these sites, then they're welcome to come over and have a look for themselves," he said.

The White House immediately rejected the offer, saying the matter is up to the United Nations, not Iraq.

Resolution sharply divides Democrats

The Senate vote sharply divided Democrats, with 29 voting for the measure and 21 against. All Republicans except Sen. Lincoln Chafee of Rhode Island voted for passage.

Ahead of the vote, Senate Majority Leader Tom Daschle announced Thursday morning he would support Bush on Iraq, saying it is important for the country "to speak with one voice at this critical moment."

Daschle, D-South Dakota, said the threat of Iraq's weapons programs "may not be imminent. But it is real. It is growing. And it cannot be ignored." However, he urged Bush to move "in a way that avoids making a dangerous situation even worse."

Daschle had expressed reservations about a possible U.S. attack on Iraq, and he was not part of an agreement between the White House and other congressional leaders framing the resolution last week.

Sen. Robert Byrd, D-West Virginia, attempted Thursday to mount a filibuster against the resolution but was cut off on a 75 to 25 vote.

Byrd had argued the resolution amounted to a "blank check" for the White House.

"This is the Tonkin Gulf resolution all over again," Byrd said. "Let us stop, look and listen. Let us not give this president or any president unchecked power. Remember the Constitution."

But Sen. John McCain, R-Arizona, said the United States needs to move before Saddam can develop a more advanced arsenal.

"Giving peace a chance only gives Saddam Hussein more time to prepare for war on his terms, at a time of his choosing, in pursuit of ambitions that will only grow as his power to achieve them grows," McCain said.

In the House, six Republicans -- Ron Paul of Texas; Connie Morella of Maryland; Jim Leach of Iowa; Amo Houghton of New York; John Hostettler of Indiana; and John Duncan of Tennessee -- joined 126 Democrats in voting against the resolution.

Minority Leader Richard Gephardt, D-Missouri, said giving Bush the authority to attack Iraq could avert war by demonstrating the United States is willing to confront Saddam over his obligations to the United Nations.

"I believe we have an obligation to protect the United States by preventing him from getting these weapons and either using them himself or passing them or their components on to terrorists who share his destructive intent," said Gephardt, who helped draft the measure.

But Rep. Dennis Kucinich, D-Ohio, said the 133 votes against the measure were "a very strong message" to the administration.

"All across this land Americans are insisting on a peaceful resolution of matters in Iraq," he said. "All across this land, Americans are looking towards the United States to be a nation among nations, working through the United Nations to help resolve this crisis."
CNN.com - Senate approves Iraq war resolution - Oct. 11, 2002
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Old 01-19-2009, 06:29 PM   #22
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How many politicians and bureaucrats opposed the invasion on the basis that Saddam Hussein wasn't threat to US interests?


what changed, in "this post-9/11 world," was the threat that SH and his supposed WMDs posed to the US itself. that's the pertinent issue here, and the spinelessness of the Democrats -- who feared electoral retribution from an understandably shaken public of 2002 -- does not at all absolve the Bush administration from their willfull manipulation of the WMD evidence, nor does it absolve them from their very clear and very distinct break from Clinton and Bush 41-era containment policies.

remember the debates on a "grave and gathering danger" and the parsing of the word "imminent"?
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Old 01-19-2009, 07:03 PM   #23
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I've had a long day, what a fabulous thread.
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Old 01-19-2009, 07:30 PM   #24
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Brilliant letter to a brilliant man. The idiots who denounce Bush demostrate to the world that they are idiots because they have voted in a man for no reason other than he is black! This man speaks of hope and change and the idiot sheep buy every word. Now see The One is president and already he is breaking every major campaign promise he made. In fact, bush is vinidcated by the fact the idiot's president, obama,
is already continuing all of Bush's major policies. Wire taps, no time table for iraq, win in Afghanistan, keeping the Bush tax cuts, no winfall tax on the oil companies, no universal healthcare crapola, and foreign policy pretty much the same. You see liberal idiots, when a guy is not in power and responsible for the country it is easy to criticize him. But when that man now OWNS the economy, the wars, the foreign policiy he can't just make idiot statements and not worry about the consequences. So all you idiots who hated Bush are looking mighty stupid because your Messian is already showing that he will do very much the same as Bush. Obama claimed he would close gitmo butnow we see he has no answer as to what to do with the prisoners. George bush did a good job despiste all the idiots who bashed him everyday. And now we will all see the hypocrisy of the democrats as we watch them take full responsiblity for the economy and wars. If they do what they have always said they would do, they will make things far worse and be out on 4 years. if they do what has to be done, they will vindicate Goerge W Bush!
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Old 01-19-2009, 07:35 PM   #25
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Old 01-19-2009, 07:39 PM   #26
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Old 01-19-2009, 07:43 PM   #27
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Brilliant letter to a brilliant man. The idiots who denounce Bush demostrate to the world that they are idiots because they have voted in a man for no reason other than he is black! This man speaks of hope and change and the idiot sheep buy every word. Now see The One is president and already he is breaking every major campaign promise he made. In fact, bush is vinidcated by the fact the idiot's president, obama,
is already continuing all of Bush's major policies. Wire taps, no time table for iraq, win in Afghanistan, keeping the Bush tax cuts, no winfall tax on the oil companies, no universal healthcare crapola, and foreign policy pretty much the same. You see liberal idiots, when a guy is not in power and responsible for the country it is easy to criticize him. But when that man now OWNS the economy, the wars, the foreign policiy he can't just make idiot statements and not worry about the consequences. So all you idiots who hated Bush are looking mighty stupid because your Messian is already showing that he will do very much the same as Bush. Obama claimed he would close gitmo butnow we see he has no answer as to what to do with the prisoners. George bush did a good job despiste all the idiots who bashed him everyday. And now we will all see the hypocrisy of the democrats as we watch them take full responsiblity for the economy and wars. If they do what they have always said they would do, they will make things far worse and be out on 4 years. if they do what has to be done, they will vindicate Goerge W Bush!
Welcome to FYM. Feel free to join in the discussion, but try to refrain from calling people idiots.

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Old 01-19-2009, 08:36 PM   #28
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Welcome to FYM. Feel free to join in the discussion, but try to refrain from calling people idiots.
tell that to the other guys
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Old 01-19-2009, 08:40 PM   #29
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tell that to the other guys
I don't see anyone else calling people idiots in this thread.
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Old 01-19-2009, 08:43 PM   #30
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hmm check the bono confronts obama on palestine and israel
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