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Old 11-23-2009, 09:03 PM   #91
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Originally Posted by Kieran McConville View Post
Talk of agendas (in scare quotes as they probably should be) or 'messages' when it comes to art is a terrible thing, I believe. Tragically, it's not just some audiences but some artists who seem to approach their work in this way.

Story is a force of nature. It may come to carry great resonance for many people, but no writer, artist, musician or filmmaker should ever approach their work with 'I'm going to send the right message/treat a certain issue in a certain way'. That way lies bad art, and there's plenty of it around because a lot of people seem to think that art's role is to inculate society with messages of varying worthiness. As though we're all just receivers. Blank.
This is why I cant understand the acclaim for movies like Traffic or Crash. A couple of hamfisted pieces of shit if you ask me
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Old 11-23-2009, 09:04 PM   #92
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This is why I cant understand the acclaim for movies like Traffic or Crash. A couple of hamfisted pieces of shit if you ask me


Crash yes, Traffic not as much.

imho.
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Old 11-23-2009, 09:15 PM   #93
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Crash yes, Traffic not as much.

imho.
Traffic had me right up to Eric Forman's prepared speech in the back of the car. That was the point where my suspension of disbelief fell right off the tightrope and I was fully aware that I was watching a film that was trying oh so very hard to make a point


imho
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Old 11-23-2009, 09:17 PM   #94
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to be honest, i haven't seen it since the theaters, which is now like 8 years ago.
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Old 11-23-2009, 09:24 PM   #95
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Is this really how obsessed and narrow minded some folks are?

McNaughton Fine Art

Rich Mullins once said in regards to a lot of the popular evangelical preachers, "They're wrong. They're not bad people. Just wrong."

That sums up how I feel about this painting. The guy seems sincere he enough. I just happen to think he's way off base.

Also, I suppose I do feel there was an "agenda" to Brokeback Mountain but I don't see why that's a bad thing. . . (But then I also loved Crash, so there you go. Maybe it's me that's got the problem. . .as an aside, I do believe, one of the first arguments I ever got into on Interference was about Crash. And I remember correctly I was arguing with Irvine. . . ahh memories. . . ). I don't think there is anything wrong with trying to promote a particular point of view through your art, as long as the storytelling comes first.
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Old 11-23-2009, 09:50 PM   #96
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you have been duped
I wouldn't take things posted on Snopes as Gospel.

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subject: Authority and accuracy at snopes.com

snopes is a lot of fun to browse, but its users should be aware
that it is a "hobby site" maintained by its creators. It is not
a site affiliated with a large organization with formidable
research resources...

From the snopes.com faq pages:

Q: Who creates the material for this site?

A: With a few exceptions, all of the material on this site is prepared
by the same people who operate this site, barbara and david mikkelson.

Q: How do i know the information you've presented is accurate?

A: We don't expect anyone to accept us as the ultimate authority on any
topic, which is why our site's name indicates that it contains
reference pages. Unlike the plethora of anonymous individuals who
create and send the unsigned, unsourced e-mail messages that are
forwarded all over the internet, we show our work. The research
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listed in the bibliography displayed at the bottom of that page so that
readers who wish to verify the validity of our information may check
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Old 11-23-2009, 10:40 PM   #97
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Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
Even if he had, what does it have to do with the constitution?

Why would he endorse xenophobia?

Why would he endorse the actor Ronald Reagan but then use Hollywood as a target?

No one with a decent amount of intelligence could really back up the message of this painting.

Like Sean's post says, "they're not bad, just wrong".

Although I do think some are truly bad people.
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Old 11-23-2009, 11:11 PM   #98
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I wouldn't take things posted on Snopes as Gospel.

They said they're cited. If you really feel like proving a_wanderer wrong, do your own research and prove him wrong.
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Old 11-23-2009, 11:15 PM   #99
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Change 'promoting a particular point of view' to 'put yourself into your art' and I'll go along with it.

'Promoting', like 'agenda' is another one of those dreary marketing-world terms that means all sorts of things to all sorts of people.

In fact, despite my previous post, I have little respect for any artist who self-censors or lies or pretends to have no convictions when in fact they do. I simply say that the primary purpose is not, or should not, be to include the proper 'message'. Government educational campaigns routinely fall on deaf ears for the same reason... nobody gives a shit and people are sick of being lectured to.

Hell, just last week I heard a radio debate about whether the "Twilight" novels were anti-feminist or something. Now, I haven't read Twilight, don't really mean to, as it sounds like it's for teenage girls primarily, but it is story. It should be treated as such. Banning it or sending out another public educational campaign for teh kidz isn't going to make a damn bit of difference. And people learn discernment through their mistakes. Better they read something they later in life judge to be mediocre, than never even enter that life of the mind.
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Old 11-23-2009, 11:49 PM   #100
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I wouldn't take things posted on Snopes as Gospel.


aw. it's okay.

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Old 11-23-2009, 11:57 PM   #101
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Hell, just last week I heard a radio debate about whether the "Twilight" novels were anti-feminist or something. Now, I haven't read Twilight, don't really mean to, as it sounds like it's for teenage girls primarily, but it is story. It should be treated as such. Banning it or sending out another public educational campaign for teh kidz isn't going to make a damn bit of difference. And people learn discernment through their mistakes. Better they read something they later in life judge to be mediocre, than never even enter that life of the mind.



while i see why teenage girls go crazy for "Twilight," i am of the opinion that it really *is* rather misogynistic and anti-female sexuality. i've only seen the first movie, and have no intention of reading the book, but the whole thing is one big if-you-have-sex-you'll-die metaphor where female sexual desire is riddled with shame and punishment.

though that's what most vampire stories are all about. having sex = death, the blood is symbolic of the broken hymen, venom = semen (notice they literally had to suck out the venom/semen in the first movie at the end), Bella is on the verge of panting orgasm the whole time if Edward would just show her what it is she's missing but he won't because he's safe and good despite the look of dread that's constantly on his delicate, almost girlish pale face.

it's like a Chastity Ball, but with great jackets and nicely moody wet atmosphere.

/tangent
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Old 11-24-2009, 12:01 AM   #102
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take it easy over there, Irvine
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Old 11-24-2009, 12:06 AM   #103
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take it easy over there, Irvine


i'm sorry, i just find heterosexuality creepy and uncomfortable and there's an unsettling inequality there and i don't think they should be allowed to get married because i said so.
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Old 11-24-2009, 12:18 AM   #104
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i'm sorry, i just find heterosexuality creepy and uncomfortable and there's an unsettling inequality there and i don't think they should be allowed to get married because i said so.
And the children. Oh, the children!
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Old 11-24-2009, 12:23 AM   #105
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i'm sorry, i just find heterosexuality creepy and uncomfortable and there's an unsettling inequality there and i don't think they should be allowed to get married because i said so.
I was referring to all the hot, steamy language you were using
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