no sale-they both happened.
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I've got some questions that I would like a religious person to answer:
1. Look I respect your opinion and if you get lots of benefit from your beliefs then that's great, but what tells you without a shadow of a doubt that you know that the above events happened?
2. Is it faith (belief without proof) or is it actual personal knowledge. Is the bible incorruptable?
3. Is there a possibility that if Jesus could talk to Paul or Joseph Smith that there would be no disagreements?
4. Where is this certainty coming from? I know Mormons live a long time because they don't smoke, drink or do drugs which is good but where is the proof that is necessary to show the rest of us unenlightened that the bible is not a moral fable and is in fact a history at the level beyond Herodetus let alone Thucydides?
5. If I was a historian and I wanted to prove Satan wrong how could I move forward without abandoning historical evidence and jumping onto faith?
6. What happens to a person who lives on a communal farm in China and is not exposed to Christianity? Do those people go to hell because they learned Confucianism/Communism instead?
7. If I become a Mormon and I do so because I want to go to heaven out of fear, am I being moral for its own sake or self-interested?
I mean question 7 comes from looking at St. Augustine's City of God where God deems Grace to some and not others no matter what actions you took in your life. This strand eventually lead to Luther and then Calvin with predestination. I'm not even touching on Mormonism yet which involves Indians in the Americas being deemed Jews painted of color because of God's judgment. What archeologist could believe that when all the evidence shows they are Mongols and not Semitic?
What about the belief that God was once man and man was once a God? Even Aquinas could understand the concept of the "First Cause" to stop Joseph Smith in his tracks:
Cosmological argument - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Humans always ask the question "what came before?"
The problem is we have evidence and knowledge through history and archeology and it's hard to throw that away in favor of faith in books written by
people. History books and archeology books are more books by people who only change their minds when compelling evidence shows otherwise. Archeologists have artifacts, carbon dating to match with historical texts. Do Mormons have evidence that isn't doctored? Are scientists Satanic?
Now I've been polite to many Mormons who have knocked on my door and I've invited them in and they could never answer these arguments without faith in the Bible and the book of Mormon.
If Christians are just relying on faith shouldn't they say "I believe this to be true" instead of saying that it happened like they witnessed it themselves?" This leads to a very disturbing thought: Is the prescription for belief in the accuracy of Christianity based on evidence that's supposed to be scientificially accurate?
I know there is fear that when people abandon religion they can throw out the baby with the bath water and invent new ones that are even worse. Eg. The Da Vinci Code which posits that the holy grail is a vagina.
Brace Yourselves! Holy Grail Is... | The New York Observer
Reading this movie review was more fun than watching the movie itself.
Without the self-discipline that is engendered with religion the fabric of society can fall, unless people seek morality and ethics for themselves, which I think is possible.
There are lots of atheists who go in the other direction and say "there is no God" but also have no explanation for our existence and create materialistic religions like Marxism that talk about a heaven on earth, or Marxist environmentalists that look at the fall of man as industry and we need to pay a tithe (carbon taxes) to Al Gore proponents on the faith that the world will be saved if we do so.
There is definately a danger following a loss in Christian faith, but isn't it possible for humans to find multiple sources of understanding in ethics and morality so we can judge for ourselves right and wrong and be self reliant?
When I look at religious groups all I see is business models, networking and marketing.
For now I just say "let me look at the evidence so far but until then the after life and creation are a question mark because no one knows for a fact either way."