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Old 01-15-2011, 06:24 PM   #1
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"All this polite and smiley feminism is getting us nowhere"

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Nowadays, saying bad stuff about men is not how feminism conducts itself. We all lurve men. We are all smiley for fear of being labelled man–haters. And what is the result of this people-pleasing, ultra-feminine, crowd–sourced sexual politics? Sod all.

Reasonably sitting around waiting for equality while empowering oneself with some silicone implants does not really seem to have worked wonders, does it ladeez? Postfeminism – as personified by the Sex and the City generation – basically confused sexual liberation with shopping: a mistaken strategy even within its own market-driven terms. So we live on a permanent diet of crumbs from the table. A woman over 50 gets to be on TV! Whoopdiwhoop! It's a victory, sure, but is that all there is? It's time to wake up and smell the skinny latte.

A woman is murdered in Bristol and the response is to tell women to stay at home?! For their own safety. Though no one thinks it's a woman doing the murdering. A curfew on men would be considered a monstrous idea, even though most women live with internalised curfews anyway.
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I don't like the jargon "sex workers". We are all sex workers these days, unless we are celibate, as we are all encouraged to pursue lifelong sexiness. Most young women are endlessly groomed to be desirable after all. Yet the men who have sex with young, frightened, addled girls choose to do so. Such sex, we are told, is about power. To have sex in a car with a heroin addict is very cheap indeed. It goes on day in and day out, and of course it makes me wonder about male sexuality. As does the use of rape as a weapon of war. To say these things is not to say all men are rapists. But some are. To not say them does not make it stop.

All this polite and smiley feminism is getting us nowhere | Suzanne Moore | Comment is free | The Guardian
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Old 01-15-2011, 06:41 PM   #2
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cranky bitch
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Old 01-15-2011, 06:42 PM   #3
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She's all over the place with this piece, have no idea where to start. She's so angry she can't write...
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Old 01-15-2011, 06:44 PM   #4
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she sounds lovely. the whole male sex is presumed guilty right off the bat.


i don't know what for, i read the first paragraph on the guardian page and decided if i wanted to hear how horrible i was, i could just start an argument with the missus.
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Old 01-15-2011, 06:45 PM   #5
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give me a minute.
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Old 01-15-2011, 08:08 PM   #6
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Er...okay.

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God, how I miss those troublesome women like Andrea Dworkin and Shulamith Firestone. They may have been as batty as hell but they had passion. And balls. They were properly furious at the horrible things men do to women. Who in their right mind, male or female, isn't? Your mother, your sister, your daughter are being told to stay inside and not complain too much. Take up knitting or vajazzling maybe?
I'm angry as hell and completely disgusted at the horrible things some men out there do to women. Absolutely. And I have no problem calling them out on their behavior and demanding an end to such violence and mistreatment. Complain all you want about that stuff, you should, you need to.

But I'm sorry, I'm not about to blame all of the male species for this crap. There are many, many men out there who would stand beside women to help end such horrors. Who would never dream of hurting women so. It doesn't make sense, nor is it fair, to lump them in the same group with the evil men.

Passion and the guts to fight back are fantastic things to have, important and necessary things. You just need to know how and when to properly utilize them.

Angela
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Old 01-15-2011, 09:01 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Moonlit_Angel View Post
Er...okay.

I'm angry as hell and completely disgusted at the horrible things some men out there do to women. Absolutely. And I have no problem calling them out on their behavior and demanding an end to such violence and mistreatment. Complain all you want about that stuff, you should, you need to.

But I'm sorry, I'm not about to blame all of the male species for this crap. There are many, many men out there who would stand beside women to help end such horrors. Who would never dream of hurting women so. It doesn't make sense, nor is it fair, to lump them in the same group with the evil men.

Passion and the guts to fight back are fantastic things to have, important and necessary things. You just need to know how and when to properly utilize them.

Angela
I didn't get the sense that the writer was actually saying all men are to blame. I make no claims to be a feminist and indeed am on record here as criticising how some women use the legal system to deny paternal rights to fathers, for example. What is missing from her analysis is perhaps some nodding recognition of issues such as this from the other side of the fence. However, the parts that ring true to me in her essay are excerpts like this

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..even though most women live with internalised curfews anyway.
Men do not have to live in internalised curfews in the sense that she is referring to. We do not, at any time, live in fear of being raped or sexually harassed (except for men that are in prison, perhaps, and even at that it would have to be a pretty dodgy prison).

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I don't like the jargon "sex workers". We are all sex workers these days, unless we are celibate, as we are all encouraged to pursue lifelong sexiness. Most young women are endlessly groomed to be desirable after all.
This is quite perceptive, I think. We live in a hypersexualised culture.

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Yet the men who have sex with young, frightened, addled girls choose to do so.
She's right here. Prostitution should be legal qnd regulated IMO and I have no issue with consenting adults, regardless of gender, choosing to be either a buyer or seller of sex 'services', but if you exploit young girls, you're a dickhead, as far as I'm concerned, and anger is a justified and appropriate response to this behaviour, IMO.
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Old 01-15-2011, 09:17 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by financeguy View Post
I didn't get the sense that the writer was actually saying all men are to blame. I make no claims to be a feminist and indeed am on record here as criticising how some women use the legal system to deny paternal rights to fathers, for example. What is missing from her analysis is perhaps some nodding recognition of issues such as this from the other side of the fence.
I think it's just that she seems to be lashing out to the point where, like you said, she doesn't really stop to look at the other side, so it comes off that way even if that's not how she's intending it to be.

(I do also agree that some women definitely abuse the legal system)

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However, the parts that ring true to me in her essay are excerpts like this

Men do not have to live in internalised curfews in the sense that she is referring to. We do not, at any time, live in fear of being raped or sexually harassed (except for men that are in prison, perhaps, and even at that it would have to be a pretty dodgy prison).
This I do agree with. There's certainly more chance of danger towards women in everyday situations than there is towards men.

But I don't want it to delve into paranoia, either. I don't like paranoia.

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This is quite perceptive, I think. We live in a hypersexualised culture.
I agree with this to a point. We do as a society definitely tend to try and push for girls to look as glamorous as they can possibly be.

But I don't know about "hypersexualized". We're a very odd culture in that we alternately crave and fear sexuality all at once, and I think there's a lot of factors at play with that.

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She's right here. Prostitution should be legal qnd regulated IMO and I have no issue with consenting adults, regardless of gender, choosing to be either a buyer or seller of sex 'services', but if you exploit young girls, you're a dickhead, as far as I'm concerned, and anger is a justified and appropriate response to this behaviour, IMO.
Certainly no argument here, either, you and I and her are on the same page with this. I don't disagree with some of the stuff she says in the article, I just think she could've perhaps articulated some of it a bit better. No matter how right she may be, some are going to read that and see it as the stereotypical bitter woman rant. Which is more their problem than hers, I guess, but still...

Angela
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Old 01-16-2011, 11:21 AM   #9
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If I were to gleen a point to that incoherent rant, it's that the author views the result of lipstick feminism as leaving women with no strong voice or representation in the political discourse or decision-making structure in the UK.

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The last election was the most regressive for women I can remember. Women appeared as trophy wives, or not at all. The consequences of that are that this government – this new way of doing politics – is hitting women and children the hardest. Women are suffering most from the cuts that men are making. Just look at the figures.
Is that a fair statement? I'm not sure how the UK political landscape currently looks from a gender perspective.

If women and children are the biggest users of social spending, then yes, they will be hardest hit by cuts. Do women in positions of power on this side of the Atlantic make different public spending decisions? I doubt it.
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Old 01-22-2011, 04:14 PM   #10
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Perhaps this is the key to the divine feminine - and a fourth wave of feminism that isn't rooted in gender. Or something.

Brene Brown: The power of vulnerability | Video on TED.com
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