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Old 08-16-2014, 10:10 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by nbelcik View Post
Like all matters of faith (questions like is there a God), it's impossible to prove whether or not there is an afterlife. If people want to believe there is one, good. If people don't want to believe there is one, good. But it's scientifically impossible to prove.


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I agree. It is a matter of faith.

I respect your answer more those who dismiss faith as a fairy tale
and claim that nails the concrete truth.

It is indeed impossible to prove either way.
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Old 08-16-2014, 11:29 PM   #32
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The existence of Santa is scientifically impossible to prove....or fairies....but we don't live our lives with the chance THEY might. We're pretty certain it's made up.

Same with an afterlife. We all managed to cope with finding out about Santa, we can cope with death too


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, could you be a little more dismissive? I'm not sure you were convincing enough.
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Old 08-19-2014, 12:23 AM   #33
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I'm with Beal on this.
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Old 08-19-2014, 09:31 AM   #34
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I do not think there is an afterlife, in the sense of "I'm going to see all my family and have a big party with all my friends who have passed on before me, and we'll all have rockin' bodies and hang out with other famous dead people and/or Jesus".

I am not scared of death, not even a little bit (although I am scared of dying painfully, I am not at all scared of "being dead"). I am not concerned that because I don't believe the right thing, or not the same thing as my parents that they will end up somewhere physically different than me.

When I die I expect the atoms of my body (or the ashes of my remains) to decompose into the ground or the ocean where they will eventually break down into organic material to continue feeding the plants and animals of the world. My death will help to foster some small part of the next stage of our planet's life, and I personally find a lot of beauty and satisfaction in that idea.

Everything is interconnected.
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Old 08-19-2014, 09:44 AM   #35
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The existence of Santa is scientifically impossible to prove....or fairies....but we don't live our lives with the chance THEY might. We're pretty certain it's made up.
We all managed to cope with finding out about Santa
Wait....what?
Christmas is ruined.
Thanks a lot.
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Old 08-19-2014, 10:58 AM   #36
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I've always liked this quote from Neil DeGrasse Tyson:

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“Recognize that the very molecules that make up your body, the atoms that construct the molecules, are traceable to the crucibles that were once the centers of high mass stars that exploded their chemically rich guts into the galaxy, enriching pristine gas clouds with the chemistry of life. So that we are all connected to each other biologically, to the earth chemically and to the rest of the universe atomically. That’s kinda cool! That makes me smile and I actually feel quite large at the end of that. It’s not that we are better than the universe, we are part of the universe. We are in the universe and the universe is in us.”
So even if there is no afterlife, we're still one with the universe, and that's a pretty cool thought.
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Old 08-19-2014, 02:06 PM   #37
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I've always enjoyed that quote, even without agreeing with him.

And despite what I believe about the afterlife and what will happen to my soul/spirit/whatever you want to call it after death, like Dave mentioned, I do like the idea of my mortal body being a part of some sort of future earth, type deal. I've mentioned to my family before that I really enjoy this concept, instead of wasting a burial plot:

https://urnabios.com/
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Old 08-19-2014, 03:46 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by nbelcik View Post
The afterlife is something different, it's something that isn't scientifically possible to prove or disprove.

So what's the difference between what you've described above and non existent?


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Old 08-19-2014, 04:59 PM   #39
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So what's the difference between what you've described above and non existent?


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Because it's not possible to prove or disprove if there is an afterlife or a God. It's possible to prove things such as evolution and the age of the universe using science. But whether there is a God or afterlife isn't a scientific question.


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Old 08-20-2014, 04:56 AM   #40
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You can't prove that there are no such things as fairies or Santa Claus either. Does that make them real? Does it make them not real?
Maybe, just mayybe, belief has very little to do with science. For the life of me I cannot understand how heavily religious people can believe so strongly in their ancient book that they dispel life as it's understood now. I find believing in something spiritual a great thing, if belief helps you be a good person, great for ya... but to use it as a global fact? no, it's a personal thing and should not interfere with global things like science.
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And if U2 EVER did Hawkmoon live....and the version from the Lovetown Tour, my uterus would leave my body and fling itself at Bono - for realz.
Don't worry baby, it's gonna be all right. Uncertainty can be a guiding light...
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Old 08-20-2014, 06:30 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BEAL View Post
The existence of Santa is scientifically impossible to prove....or fairies....but we don't live our lives with the chance THEY might. We're pretty certain it's made up.

Same with an afterlife. We all managed to cope with finding out about Santa, we can cope with death too
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So what's the difference between what you've described above and non existent?
When you go on an online crusade to deprogram a poor, brainwashed religious fool, what's driving you? Are you trying to stamp out a perceived evil in the world? Entertain yourself? I'm legitimately curious what keeps you going. I can appreciate a difference of opinion, but I'm not sure what's meant to be accomplished by belittling someone else's faith. Seems like a waste of your time and theirs.

This topic was created with the best of intentions but any discussions about the afterlife end up the same way, which is frustrating but inevitable, I suppose, when the evidence for and against something is a total lack of evidence.

I believe in the afterlife but don't feel like going into why that is. It's cool if others feel differently.
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Old 08-20-2014, 01:26 PM   #42
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You can't prove that there are no such things as fairies or Santa Claus either. Does that make them real? Does it make them not real?
Maybe, just mayybe, belief has very little to do with science. For the life of me I cannot understand how heavily religious people can believe so strongly in their ancient book that they dispel life as it's understood now. I find believing in something spiritual a great thing, if belief helps you be a good person, great for ya... but to use it as a global fact? no, it's a personal thing and should not interfere with global things like science.

Science can prove there isn't fairies or Santa Claus because there is no earthly evidence for them. It's like those people who believe that Bigfoot or ghosts is real. But it is not possible to disprove or prove that there is an afterlife because it's just not a scientific question. Those types of questions just can't be answered by science. Never have I said that I believe that there is an afterlife. Some people on here are certain that there is an afterlife, some are certain there isn't. I believe that there is no way to know for certain if there is one and therefore I'm not sure if I believe in the afterlife or not, it's one of life's big questions. No one will ever be able to prove there is or isn't one. How that makes me heavily religious according to you, I don't understand.


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Old 08-20-2014, 03:12 PM   #43
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We can reach the North Pole and look for Santa. Because of the various claims made, we should expect evidence of Santa using the scientific method.

Yet, beyond claims that clearly should be ignored, we couldn't reach an Afterlife. I shouldn't expect any evidence of an Afterlife even if it were real. Probably, I should see it as another dimension. We can't reach any of the other 7 dimensions suggested by string theory and we can't really fathom the world outside the hologram in the holographic principle.

Yet, I should expect evidence of reindeer droppings because of the claims made about Santa. So since I should expect evidence for Santa and I see none, I know Santa is not real.

If you're expecting evidence of an Afterlife you are talking in religious terms, whether you are a believer or a pop skeptic (as we see here). Debunking clearly man-made religious claims is not the same as addressing the core issue. It's like anti-theists debunking 'God' by only attacking man-made concepts of God....religion.

Show me a book or a school of thought that addresses either of these issues without needing to use religion as a hammer to defeat them, and you will show me true skepticism on the matter.
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Old 08-20-2014, 03:27 PM   #44
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We can't reach any of the other 7 dimensions suggested by string theory and we can't really fathom the world outside the hologram in the holographic principle.
Absolutely FANTASTIC point!

The only thing I might add - is that it seems feasible that on occasion - these dimensions/holograms intersect - and offer "glimpses" into something "more."

If this does happen, it's fleeting - thus difficult to measure/prove. It would seem very real to those beings that experience it, but it would be almost impossible to prove using reason.

I think, perhaps, that is why many Eastern religions, and even the Eastern flavors of Christianity, focus more on the religious experience than we do in the West - with our more "rational" approach to God and the world.
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Old 08-20-2014, 03:45 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by nbelcik View Post
Science can prove there isn't fairies or Santa Claus because there is no earthly evidence for them. It's like those people who believe that Bigfoot or ghosts is real. But it is not possible to disprove or prove that there is an afterlife because it's just not a scientific question. Those types of questions just can't be answered by science. Never have I said that I believe that there is an afterlife. Some people on here are certain that there is an afterlife, some are certain there isn't. I believe that there is no way to know for certain if there is one and therefore I'm not sure if I believe in the afterlife or not, it's one of life's big questions. No one will ever be able to prove there is or isn't one. How that makes me heavily religious according to you, I don't understand.


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I guess you and I differ on our definitions of science then. As far as I'm aware, not having evidence for something does not define its inexistence. Science cannot prove inexistence, it can only prove existence. So for spiritual matters, science is not the place to find your answers.

To me it's a bit like two different realms. The science of all physical and 'reachable' things we can measure and figure out, and the spiritual part where the questions are left unanswered, or we find them in ourselves or wherever, because we believe in them. I don't need to prove or disprove if afterlife exists, for I have no meaning to. If it exists, we won't find out but we'll go to a better place. If it does not exist, who am I to crush people's idea if it comforts them?


Pardon, I didn't mean to imply that you were heavily religious, at all. Probably should work on my phrasing. I was more thinking about the middle east right now where they are killing each other for believing something slightly different. Still boggles my mind.
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And if U2 EVER did Hawkmoon live....and the version from the Lovetown Tour, my uterus would leave my body and fling itself at Bono - for realz.
Don't worry baby, it's gonna be all right. Uncertainty can be a guiding light...
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